I think a material difference between Iraq (v2 anyway) and Ukraine is that they can keep doing the “well Russia was the aggressor” thing indefinitely even if the reality is more complicated.

also yes obviously some libs are still stubborn about Iraq, the worst ones, but for the most part its generally agreed that the Iraq War was a bad thing.

    • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      revolutionary defeatism is for use against imperialists, not anti-imperialists combatting the world hegemonic empire. If I was in Syria I would be fighting for Assad. If I were in Iraq during US invasion I would be fighting for Saddam. If I were in Libya, I would fight for Gaddafi. The right to resist imperialism supersedes all else, it’s the primary contradiction.

      • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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        1 year ago

        Most MLs I have spoken to think revolutionairy defeatism absolutely applies to Russia and praise activists fighting the draft there. shrug-outta-hecks

        Russia may be a lesser evil on the geopolitical stage but treating them as purely an antiimperialist force worth uncritically supporting to the point where you actually take up arms for their revanchist activities (and yes, part of the motive for Russia’s actions is revanchism, NATO encirclement and Donbass also factor in, but denying the revanchism is foolish).

        • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Well I disagree with most western MLs and instead agree with DPRK, China, Cuba and other AES ML nations who are allied with Russia

          Russia has won my trust after Syria and Belarus, they have consistently acted in an anti-imperialist manner for many conflicts now. Why they are acting in this manner is not relevant, only that they are. China, DPRK, Cuba all agree with me

          • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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            1 year ago

            Geopoltiically aligning with Russia is different from being a Russian citizen living in Russia. Do you condemn Russians fighting being drafted into a war they don’t want to participate in?

            • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I believe it’s a fight for Russia’s continued existence and is as necessary as the great patriotic war. Russians should fight if they don’t want the US to loot their corpses again

              • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
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                1 year ago

                Thinking slavery is good doesnt seem very leftist to me but ok. Sounds like you’ve forgotten the critical in critical support. Putin isnt a anti-imperialist ideologue, and modern Russia isnt an anti-imperialist force by nature, it just happens that Russias goals align with antiimperialism right now.

                Also, to respond to a previous point, bourgeoise countries shouldn’t “earn your trust”, that is not material analysis.

                • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  Did the USSR “enslave” the conscripts to the red army? Or maybe existential war is a valid reason to take certain measures?

                  Again, ideologues and ideology are not relevant. Only outcomes. Russia is fighting for its survival against imperialists. That means they should not be sabotaged by anyone who considers themselves an anti-imperialist. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Have you internalized this yet?

            • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Russia has risen to a sacred fight to protect its sovereignty and security against the hegemonic forces. North Korea supports all Putin’s decisions. I’m sure we will remain together in [the] fight against imperialism

              Kim Jong Un

              Do you believe you and other westerners understand anti-imperialism and what needs to be done for the victory of socialism more than the official position of the most advanced socialist nation on Earth that is basically defined by its anti-imperialist stance and almost always materially supporting the correct side of any conflict (even when westerners cry)?