I’ve spent the last few years devouring Soviet history. Books, papers, blog posts, podcasts, all of it. I can’t get enough. Not to brag, but I do feel as though I’ve achieved a certain level of understanding about the USSR, its history, and eventual collapse. But I’ve also put the work in.

And yet, whenever I engage people I know IRL or online, I’m amazed by how doggedly people will defend what they just inherently “know”: that the Soviet Union was an evil totalitarian authority dictatorship that killed 100 million of its own people and eventually collapsed because communism never works. None of these people (at least the people I know IRL) have learned anything about Soviet history beyond maybe a couple days of lectures and a textbook chapter in high school history classes. Like, I get that this is the narrative that nearly every American holds in their heads. The fact that people believe this isn’t surprising. But what is a little surprising to me is that, when confronted with a challenge to that narrative from someone they know has always loved history and has bothered to learn more, they dig their heels in and insist they are right and I am wrong.

This isn’t about me, I’m just sharing my experience with this. I’m just amazed at how Americans will be completely ignorant about a topic (not just the USSR) but will be utterly convinced their views on that topic are correct, despite their own lack of investigation into that topic. This is the same country where tens of millions of people think dinosaurs and humans walked around together and will not listen to what any “scientist” has to say about it, after all.

  • PosadistInevitablity [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    All of that stuff is still happening today and burying it as “in the past” is EXACTLY what I mean when I say it’s unexamined.

    Let this sink in. The US is what you’d get if Nazi Germany stood for 250 years. The corrupt fascist heart still beats at the center, and it drives every decision this country makes.

    It is NOT in the past.

      • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Hitler grew up reading Karl May’s American western novels for young people, which featured tales of taming the “Wild West” through “Indian wars.” He also regularly re-read them into adulthood, even recommending them to his generals as sources of creative ideas. Writing in “Mein Kampf” in the 1920s, Hitler praised the way the “Aryan” America conquered “its own continent” by clearing the “soil” of “natives” to make room for more “racially pure” settlers and lay the foundation for its economic self-sufficiency and growing global power. Indeed, the concept of Lebensraum was coined and popularized by Friedrich Razel, who said his theory of colonization and racial replacement drew inspiration from the American historian Frederick Jackson Turner’s “frontier thesis” and its identification of “colonization of the Great West” as central to American history and identity.

        Once the Nazis gained power in Germany, Kakel details how the American West became an “obsession” for Hitler and his closest followers, such as SS leader Heinrich Himmler. Their goal was to remake the demographics of Europe the same way the United States remade the demographics of North America. The Nazi leadership routinely referred to Eastern Europe as “the German East” or the “Wild East,” and its inhabitants as “Indians.” Admiring how the United States had “gunned down the millions of removed to a few hundred thousand, and now keep the modest remnant under observation in a cage,” Hitler spoke of his intention to similarly “Germanize” the east “by the immigration of Germans, and to look upon the natives as removed.” Echoing American justifications for westward settlement, he stated, “It is inconceivable that a higher people should painfully exist on a soil too narrow for it, whilst amorphous masses, which contribute nothing to civilization, occupy infinite tracts of a soil that is one of the richest in the world.” His answer? “Here in the east a similar process will repeat itself for the second time as in the conquest of America.” For Hitler, “Our Mississippi must be the Volga.”

        As in the American case, Hitler used threats of war and then war itself to gain territory in the east. Then regular army troops, paramilitary units called “Einsatzgruppen,” and collaborating locals began killing, terrorizing and expelling inhabitants considered racially inferior. A “Hunger Plan” envisioned mass starvation, mainly of Slavs. Meanwhile, the SS drew up plans to expel all European Jews to a massive Judenreservat, or “Jewish reservation,” either in Madagascar (once British control of the sea lanes was defeated) or Siberia (once the Soviet Union was defeated). Most were expected to die of disease and starvation.

        After the invasion of Poland, Germany quickly annexed part of the country and began the process of moving in ethnic German and other sufficiently “Aryan” settlers. Nazi propaganda showed photos of German colonists departing in covered wagons and described the lands to the east as the “California of Europe.” German newspapers featured headlines such as “Go East, Young Man!” — an imitation of Horace Greeley’s famous advice to American settlers to seek their fortune in the west. As for resistance by those being conquered, killed and cleared? Hitler compared it to “the struggle in North America against the Red Indians.” After all, he said, “who remembers the Red Indians?”

        source

        If Hitler had been successful in Eastern Europe, leaders and politicians today would be talking about them the same way we talk about American native groups. “Sure, what a tragedy it is, but that’s all in the past now! We had to ensure that civilization and order spread across the region! There were some unfortunate casualties, but the number of graves show that it was relatively minimal, and those camps were merely for labor, not extermination! Look, how about we do a minute of silence out of remembrance of the people who used to stand where we’re building this next mall? That’s good enough, right?”

        America is the prototypical example of a fascist state that won. “But they aren’t doing that anymore!” No shit, most of them are dead. And, as Awoo states below, the government still is oppressing what remains of indigeneous communities.

          • how pointlessly pedantic. the US does not “claim” new territory, because then it would be responsible for what happened on it. instead, it coups governments install ones that will sign over the public resources to US corporate interests for extraction and the US trains their military/secret police to undermine labor movements and execute environmental activists and labor organizers. neocolonialism is a word.

      • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Nazis blatantly and directly oppressed, captured , and murdered large swaths of people.

        Where do you think they learned their tactics? They got the idea of their concentration camps from the US reservation system, a system that still exists and still operates much like concentration camps, in an ongoing genocide on the people who’s land you are talking about were not all “wiped out” they are still here and the genocide is still happening.

          • RedDawn [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            How come you didn’t reply at all to the comment with all sorts of stats about how the state continues to oppress the indigenous?

          • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            It’s literally not a stretch, in his memoirs Hitler refers to the taking of Eastern Europe as his ‘Manifest Destiny’ and the clearing of the slavs as the clearing of his ‘removedskins’. He mostly thought that the U…S. wasn’t thorough enough, with the Boer War encampments being the direct experience that the S.S. would draw from to create the concentration camps.

            It’s not ‘today’s’ reservations, because there was a major reformation and native rights movement that was tied into the larger civil rights movement in the 1960’s, with it’s own occupation movements, marches and sabotage groups, which I am sure you know about.

            However, what is always interesting to me is that they only started winning cases and gaining significant independent rights with the neo-liberal turn of the 1970’s and 80’s, because they provided the blueprint for corporate-run independent entities. There is a reason that justices such as Niel Gorsuch are so big on native rights, because it gives a legal precedent for the creation and maintenance of powerful non-state entities within U.S. soil. I’m not going to argue if this is a good or bad thing, as it’s very grey, but the goal of the conservative empowerment of reservations seems to be eventually allowing the legal precedent for the development of a U.S. Hong Kong, an entity that is part of the U.S. but not the U.S.

            However that being said, when larger corporate interests are at stake, native rights always get thrown to the way-side.

          • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            I have spent significant time on reservations across the country and there’s certainly higher poverty rates there, much like many parts of rural America.

            if this were true you wouldn’t compare the former to the latter because you’d know just how different they are.