Why, when I am an anarcho-communist, should I work hard to support the neoliberal candidate? I am not lifting a goddamned finger for Joseph R. Biden Jr other than unwillingly casting my vote for him if need be.
I think part of it though is if you at least talk about being willing to vote for him due to the dangers of the current GOP you may sway other communists/socialists who would vote third party to vote for Biden by seeing the good in at least protecting from the current social Neo-conservatism within the GOP.
It’s not even about seeing the good, it’s about understanding the real, serious harm the GOP wants to inflict on much of the voting populace. They want to violently beat and disappear people who disagree with them.
And therein lies the problem, because the Democrats are leaning hard on how absolutely vile the GOP is, and continue to act as though they don’t have to offer anything because all they have to offer is “we’re not literally destroying lives and setting people up to be killed by violence or systemic abuse” (which is also arguable because they are also not doing a lot to stop these things). So they don’t see themselves needing to try harder for the American people, because all they have to do is be like “We’re not as bad as the other guys!” Because the Democrats are fascism-lite, they don’t actually want to solve problems with policing or having a two-tiered justice system or tax the people who fund them.
Leftists are keenly aware of the danger, and they’re pretty sick of being expected to vote for people they loathe to “save” the country from itself. Why is it our job instead of Democrats job to fucking do better and fight harder? We’ll do it because it’s better than straight fascism, but asking us to pat some dim motherfuckers on the back because they couldn’t be fucked to fight fascism themselves and wanted us to do it at the ballot box is some straight bullshit.
Republicans at least have a vision they can describe to people. It’s a racist, sexist, homophobic vision, but it’s at least a vision they can get their base to support.
Democrats don’t seem to have any plans beyond keeping the status quo. However, since most people don’t like the status quo it’s really hard to get them excited to vote for Democrats. So they have to resort to fearing the Republicans.
but asking us to pat some dim motherfuckers on the back because they couldn’t be fucked to fight fascism themselves and wanted us to do it at the ballot box is some straight bullshit.
Not only do that, but they actively BOOST fascism. They keep using the pied piper strategy over and over again. If they’re that bad (and I’m not denying that they are), why in the world do they keep signal boosting those fucks?
Cause it makes for an easy election win cause they don’t have to promise anything, just point to the contrast. I.E. they keep risking the fate of the entire world to win elections in a way that doesn’t affect their corporate donors.
They need to get with the goddamn program and start actually making solid moves with clear results. Michigan and Minnesota have been successful in this recently, at least. The vast majority of establishment Dems haven’t fought for anything but the status quo for decades. That’s a fair percentage of the reason we are in this mess in the first place, because in their eyes even if Trump isn’t doing the right thing, he’s at least doing something different. It’s shitty logic, but it is hard to argue with when the alternative keeps being old white guys that don’t want to offend corporations.
I dislike Biden intensely. I meant what I said when I wouldn’t lift a finger to help him other than vote for him. I sure as hell am not going to work to sway others in my circle to vote for him. That’s entirely up to them and the conclusions they draw. It is going against my principles as it is to vote for someone that does not represent my best interests. It’s worse that he doesn’t even represent my best interests, he does everything counter to them.
other than unwillingly casting my vote for him if need be.
For whatever it’s worth, as a gay guy with trans friends that have had to flee our home state because of GOP policies, that vote is more than enough for me. I’m more on the normie shit-lib side of online political discourse, but we do still have a lot more in common than with the GOP, and we can come together to work on common goals and prevent a lot of very real harm from happening. I know political progress is a lot slower than you (or I, for that matter) would want, but still, it is genuinely appreciated.
If you consider yourself to be “shit-lib” then we have nothing in common because I want to put a terminal end to both parties and breakdown and rebuild our society from the ground up. Both parties are terrible for different reasons. One impedes progress through tokenism and incrementalism and celebrating that as a victory. The other party are Christofascists. You and I are nothing alike. Note that I am purposely leaving your identity out of this because one thing I feel strongly about is LGBTQ+ rights. People identifying as LGBTQ+ would flourish in a system where one party (i.e. the Democrats) does not use you as pawns and the other party (i.e. the Republicans) does not want to relegate you to an underclass.
Well regardless, it’s appreciated. Not living under Christofascism is personally something of a priority for me, and I imagine it’s not hugely appealing to you either, so even if that’s the only common point (which honestly, I do rather doubt), I’ll take it.
And hey, if a realistic revolutionary path does open up, I’ll at least be open to the conversation. I’m a bit skeptical of that happening anytime particularly soon, but I’ll have an open ear should the opportunity arise.
I’m not a violent person but if our society becomes an analog to Talibani Afghanistan, I won’t go down without a fight. Better to die fighting than die in a Christian re-education camp.
To paraphrase Charlamagne tha God: Biden wants to be ratchet pussy.
Our system is a ratchet model, in which the Dems try to maintain the current spot on the continuum, while the GOP moves everything to the right when it’s in power.
Why, when I am an anarcho-communist, should I work hard to support the neoliberal candidate? I am not lifting a goddamned finger for Joseph R. Biden Jr other than unwillingly casting my vote for him if need be.
I think part of it though is if you at least talk about being willing to vote for him due to the dangers of the current GOP you may sway other communists/socialists who would vote third party to vote for Biden by seeing the good in at least protecting from the current social Neo-conservatism within the GOP.
It’s not even about seeing the good, it’s about understanding the real, serious harm the GOP wants to inflict on much of the voting populace. They want to violently beat and disappear people who disagree with them.
And therein lies the problem, because the Democrats are leaning hard on how absolutely vile the GOP is, and continue to act as though they don’t have to offer anything because all they have to offer is “we’re not literally destroying lives and setting people up to be killed by violence or systemic abuse” (which is also arguable because they are also not doing a lot to stop these things). So they don’t see themselves needing to try harder for the American people, because all they have to do is be like “We’re not as bad as the other guys!” Because the Democrats are fascism-lite, they don’t actually want to solve problems with policing or having a two-tiered justice system or tax the people who fund them.
Leftists are keenly aware of the danger, and they’re pretty sick of being expected to vote for people they loathe to “save” the country from itself. Why is it our job instead of Democrats job to fucking do better and fight harder? We’ll do it because it’s better than straight fascism, but asking us to pat some dim motherfuckers on the back because they couldn’t be fucked to fight fascism themselves and wanted us to do it at the ballot box is some straight bullshit.
Republicans at least have a vision they can describe to people. It’s a racist, sexist, homophobic vision, but it’s at least a vision they can get their base to support.
Democrats don’t seem to have any plans beyond keeping the status quo. However, since most people don’t like the status quo it’s really hard to get them excited to vote for Democrats. So they have to resort to fearing the Republicans.
The fear is real.
Democrats do use the government to help people.
Not only do that, but they actively BOOST fascism. They keep using the pied piper strategy over and over again. If they’re that bad (and I’m not denying that they are), why in the world do they keep signal boosting those fucks?
Cause it makes for an easy election win cause they don’t have to promise anything, just point to the contrast. I.E. they keep risking the fate of the entire world to win elections in a way that doesn’t affect their corporate donors.
Just insane.
They need to get with the goddamn program and start actually making solid moves with clear results. Michigan and Minnesota have been successful in this recently, at least. The vast majority of establishment Dems haven’t fought for anything but the status quo for decades. That’s a fair percentage of the reason we are in this mess in the first place, because in their eyes even if Trump isn’t doing the right thing, he’s at least doing something different. It’s shitty logic, but it is hard to argue with when the alternative keeps being old white guys that don’t want to offend corporations.
I dislike Biden intensely. I meant what I said when I wouldn’t lift a finger to help him other than vote for him. I sure as hell am not going to work to sway others in my circle to vote for him. That’s entirely up to them and the conclusions they draw. It is going against my principles as it is to vote for someone that does not represent my best interests. It’s worse that he doesn’t even represent my best interests, he does everything counter to them.
I’m fiscally conservative, but I will work to get people convinced to vote for Biden. You said you would as well. That to me is lifting a finger
No, that’s not.
There are no viable 3rd party candidates thus far. If one does happen to pop up, I will at least entertain what they have to say and listen to them.
For whatever it’s worth, as a gay guy with trans friends that have had to flee our home state because of GOP policies, that vote is more than enough for me. I’m more on the normie shit-lib side of online political discourse, but we do still have a lot more in common than with the GOP, and we can come together to work on common goals and prevent a lot of very real harm from happening. I know political progress is a lot slower than you (or I, for that matter) would want, but still, it is genuinely appreciated.
If you consider yourself to be “shit-lib” then we have nothing in common because I want to put a terminal end to both parties and breakdown and rebuild our society from the ground up. Both parties are terrible for different reasons. One impedes progress through tokenism and incrementalism and celebrating that as a victory. The other party are Christofascists. You and I are nothing alike. Note that I am purposely leaving your identity out of this because one thing I feel strongly about is LGBTQ+ rights. People identifying as LGBTQ+ would flourish in a system where one party (i.e. the Democrats) does not use you as pawns and the other party (i.e. the Republicans) does not want to relegate you to an underclass.
Well regardless, it’s appreciated. Not living under Christofascism is personally something of a priority for me, and I imagine it’s not hugely appealing to you either, so even if that’s the only common point (which honestly, I do rather doubt), I’ll take it.
And hey, if a realistic revolutionary path does open up, I’ll at least be open to the conversation. I’m a bit skeptical of that happening anytime particularly soon, but I’ll have an open ear should the opportunity arise.
I’m not a violent person but if our society becomes an analog to Talibani Afghanistan, I won’t go down without a fight. Better to die fighting than die in a Christian re-education camp.
To paraphrase Charlamagne tha God: Biden wants to be ratchet pussy.
Our system is a ratchet model, in which the Dems try to maintain the current spot on the continuum, while the GOP moves everything to the right when it’s in power.
Because under a FPtP system, the other option, the one you will get from not understanding math & game theory is currently fascism.