And you are incapable of hearing criticism of Trump without firing off about it. It’s relevant that the rich male rapist president is proposing changes that make it easier for rich male rapists to get away with it and trash their victims’ reputations when they speak up. These are his kind of people. He gets them. He protects them. Girls and others who have been raped? No, he just wants them to suffer in silence, shut up or be humiliated in public.
It’s relevant that the rich male rapist president is proposing changes that make it easier for rich male rapists to get away with it and trash their victims’ reputations when they speak up.
He’s not proposing changes. He’s rolling back the changes Biden made, which in turn mostly rolled back the 2018 changes made by Devos, most of which were either tied to basic notions of due process or were things people had won lawsuits over since the previous changes by the Obama admin.
You’re playing semantics over what counts and doesn’t count as change while the USA’s Rapist in Chief allows lawyers to obstruct school exclusion meetings. Did you conveniently forget that he (unsuccessfully) tried to sue his own rape victim for libel? Yes, of course he believes that wealthy men should be allowed to use high powered lawyers to cover up their crimes against women.
I know right? We should definitely go back to the rules where if a woman accused a man he wouldn’t necessary know who accused him or of exactly what, what evidence was brought against him, or what the procedures are and what training was given to faculty in how to follow those procedures, where part of that training in at least some cases includes that women never ever lie but men will say whatever they have to to get their way (we found this out when a student sued over it), where the person essentially prosecuting it also gets to decide the result and if they believe it’s even slightly more likely true than not then that man will be expelled. On the other hand, if a man accuses a woman all she has to do is accuse him in response and his claim will be dismissed as retaliation and hers will go forward.
***That *** sounds like the most fair possible system, doesn’t it? Because that’s what Obama created as Title IX policy, that Devos replaced in 2018, Biden essentially reinstated, and Trump reverted back to the Devos rules.
The short version is that the Obama/Biden rules are designed to punish any man accused who isn’t able to conclusively prove he can’t possibly have done it, while potentially being kept in the dark about what he’s even supposed to be defending himself against until the last minute. The Devos rules are at least a reasonable attempt at enshrining something that resembles a fair due process and if you can’t express your problems with it beyond “Orange Man Bad!” then there’s not really anything to discuss.
Is it perfect? No. Is it a damn lot better than the previous policy? Yes.
You actually believed some right wing talk show bullshit that told you that teachers were trained that girls never ever lie and boys lie all the time! You’re losing what little shred of credibility you ever had.
Fox news isn’t uncovering the truth. They’re peddling downright lies. Trump really is a bad president, a compulsive liar and a rapist, and pretending that he’s not is refusal to accept reality.
No, the training materials got leaked after their release was ordered in several court cases against the schools in question where the training materials were considered likely examples of bias (except Ole Miss, where the training materials were leaked first and then referenced by the plaintiff in that case). There were several of these, all roughly in the early-mid 2010s, as the Obama guidelines that reduced due process went into effect in 2011 and the Devos guidelines that included mandating that training materials be available to the public took effect in 2018. Cases against Yale and UMiss are probably the largest and most reported on, but not the most egregious.
I’d give you a link to the training materials from the era, but my old one is a dead link and I’m unwilling to dig through the 400-odd Title IX due process lawsuits between 2011 and 2019 to find the right one, especially since the database I used back when is behind a paywall. Said database was maintained by A Voice For Male Students, now branded as Title IX For All if you have an interest in the many and varied complaints students have filed suit against colleges for related to Title IX it might stroke your fancy. I’d point to current training materials, but those are generally based on the Devos rules since the Biden rules were only in effect for a single semester (taking effect 8/1/24) and even then were blocked by injunction in 26 states.
Fox news isn’t uncovering the truth. They’re peddling downright lies.
Yeah, generally. More often than the average news media, less often than Alex Jones, but yeah. You’re the only one in this conversation that thinks Fox News has anything to do with anything though.
Trump really is a bad president, a compulsive liar and a rapist, and pretending that he’s not is refusal to accept reality.
I have never claimed otherwise. He was an extra-shitty Republican last time (who kept saying outrageous things on social media to draw attention away from what was going on), and seemed to have jumped wholly off the deep end in the less than two weeks we’ve been into his second term (and we have nearly four more years of this shit unless he keels over, and I don’t expect Vance to be any better).
But even he and his largely terrible appointees very rarely express good ideas despite that. For example, Trump has suggested putting an end to daylight savings time, RFK wants to ban some food additives that are banned elsewhere, Trump signed FIRST STEP into law during his first term, and Devos revised the Title IX guidelines and all of those things are things I support. To be fair, that’s an almost exhaustive list of things I support that Trump and his minions have supported, but Trump supporting it doesn’t for example make ending daylight savings time suddenly a bad idea.
Again, the Devos rules aren’t perfect, but they’re much better than the Obama ones were and “Trump is bad!” is not really an argument against the guidelines, despite broadly being true.
“Trump is bad” is your repeated and deliberate mischaracterisation of my point that you are being really really really really really gullible if you think that a set of rule changes proposed by a rapist (who tries to sue his victims into silence) are balanced and a good plan rather than just a way to let rich people’s lawyers let more rapists off the hook.
And you are incapable of hearing criticism of Trump without firing off about it.
You are delusional. I criticize Trump myself in multiple comments on this thread.
It’s relevant that the rich male rapist president is proposing changes that make it easier for rich male rapists to get away with it and trash their victims’ reputations when they speak up.
It is absolutely irrelevant who proposes changes when debating whether those changes are good or bad. Even Hitler enacted some good laws. Does not make him less Horrible person or excuse other things he did. But my whole complaint is that so many people are now unable/unwilling to discuss the actual policy on it’s own merit and you are proving me right.
Instead of forming your own opinion on the policy based on rational arguments, all you can do is “TrUmP bAd, PoLiCy MuSt Be BaD.”
changes that make it easier for rich male rapists to get away with it and trash their victims’ reputations when they speak up.
Because all I see is opportunities for rich boys’ lawyers the chance to disrupt a school exclusion meeting and turn it into a media circus debating the victim’s sex life in detail, and if you think that isn’t how that plays out, you haven’t been paying attention.
Your point is entirely based on trashing other people’s skepticism that the rapist president might not have young rape victims interests at heart, and I have to call out your gullability on that point. It’s absolutely not irrelevant that Trump himself is a rapist, and repeatedly insisting that it is defies logic.
Because all I see is opportunities for rich boys’ lawyers
Because you are willfully blind.
turn it into a media circus
Title IX hearings are not public, nor is anyone arguing they should be public. It’s just a strawman argument you and people like you are making.
Your point is entirely based on trashing other people’s skepticism that the rapist president might not have young rape victims interests at heart, and I have to call out your gullability on that point.
I am trashing peoples inability to actually think about and evaluate a policy for themselves. So yes, I trash people who have to resort to trashing Trump instead of being able to intelligently discuss a policy.
It’s not like I believe Trump actually cares for fairness. Probably just broken clock being right twice a day.
You give off strong "I’m not a Trump supporter, but… " vibes because of how you can’t abide people mentioning that the USA’s Rapist in Chief tried (and failed) to sue his rape victim for libel and that that might just have a bearing on him proposing to bring expensive lawyers into a school exclusion meeting.
And you are incapable of hearing criticism of Trump without firing off about it. It’s relevant that the rich male rapist president is proposing changes that make it easier for rich male rapists to get away with it and trash their victims’ reputations when they speak up. These are his kind of people. He gets them. He protects them. Girls and others who have been raped? No, he just wants them to suffer in silence, shut up or be humiliated in public.
He’s not proposing changes. He’s rolling back the changes Biden made, which in turn mostly rolled back the 2018 changes made by Devos, most of which were either tied to basic notions of due process or were things people had won lawsuits over since the previous changes by the Obama admin.
You’re playing semantics over what counts and doesn’t count as change while the USA’s Rapist in Chief allows lawyers to obstruct school exclusion meetings. Did you conveniently forget that he (unsuccessfully) tried to sue his own rape victim for libel? Yes, of course he believes that wealthy men should be allowed to use high powered lawyers to cover up their crimes against women.
I know right? We should definitely go back to the rules where if a woman accused a man he wouldn’t necessary know who accused him or of exactly what, what evidence was brought against him, or what the procedures are and what training was given to faculty in how to follow those procedures, where part of that training in at least some cases includes that women never ever lie but men will say whatever they have to to get their way (we found this out when a student sued over it), where the person essentially prosecuting it also gets to decide the result and if they believe it’s even slightly more likely true than not then that man will be expelled. On the other hand, if a man accuses a woman all she has to do is accuse him in response and his claim will be dismissed as retaliation and hers will go forward.
***That *** sounds like the most fair possible system, doesn’t it? Because that’s what Obama created as Title IX policy, that Devos replaced in 2018, Biden essentially reinstated, and Trump reverted back to the Devos rules.
The short version is that the Obama/Biden rules are designed to punish any man accused who isn’t able to conclusively prove he can’t possibly have done it, while potentially being kept in the dark about what he’s even supposed to be defending himself against until the last minute. The Devos rules are at least a reasonable attempt at enshrining something that resembles a fair due process and if you can’t express your problems with it beyond “Orange Man Bad!” then there’s not really anything to discuss.
Is it perfect? No. Is it a damn lot better than the previous policy? Yes.
You actually believed some right wing talk show bullshit that told you that teachers were trained that girls never ever lie and boys lie all the time! You’re losing what little shred of credibility you ever had.
Fox news isn’t uncovering the truth. They’re peddling downright lies. Trump really is a bad president, a compulsive liar and a rapist, and pretending that he’s not is refusal to accept reality.
No, the training materials got leaked after their release was ordered in several court cases against the schools in question where the training materials were considered likely examples of bias (except Ole Miss, where the training materials were leaked first and then referenced by the plaintiff in that case). There were several of these, all roughly in the early-mid 2010s, as the Obama guidelines that reduced due process went into effect in 2011 and the Devos guidelines that included mandating that training materials be available to the public took effect in 2018. Cases against Yale and UMiss are probably the largest and most reported on, but not the most egregious.
I’d give you a link to the training materials from the era, but my old one is a dead link and I’m unwilling to dig through the 400-odd Title IX due process lawsuits between 2011 and 2019 to find the right one, especially since the database I used back when is behind a paywall. Said database was maintained by A Voice For Male Students, now branded as Title IX For All if you have an interest in the many and varied complaints students have filed suit against colleges for related to Title IX it might stroke your fancy. I’d point to current training materials, but those are generally based on the Devos rules since the Biden rules were only in effect for a single semester (taking effect 8/1/24) and even then were blocked by injunction in 26 states.
Yeah, generally. More often than the average news media, less often than Alex Jones, but yeah. You’re the only one in this conversation that thinks Fox News has anything to do with anything though.
I have never claimed otherwise. He was an extra-shitty Republican last time (who kept saying outrageous things on social media to draw attention away from what was going on), and seemed to have jumped wholly off the deep end in the less than two weeks we’ve been into his second term (and we have nearly four more years of this shit unless he keels over, and I don’t expect Vance to be any better).
But even he and his largely terrible appointees very rarely express good ideas despite that. For example, Trump has suggested putting an end to daylight savings time, RFK wants to ban some food additives that are banned elsewhere, Trump signed FIRST STEP into law during his first term, and Devos revised the Title IX guidelines and all of those things are things I support. To be fair, that’s an almost exhaustive list of things I support that Trump and his minions have supported, but Trump supporting it doesn’t for example make ending daylight savings time suddenly a bad idea.
Again, the Devos rules aren’t perfect, but they’re much better than the Obama ones were and “Trump is bad!” is not really an argument against the guidelines, despite broadly being true.
“Trump is bad” is your repeated and deliberate mischaracterisation of my point that you are being really really really really really gullible if you think that a set of rule changes proposed by a rapist (who tries to sue his victims into silence) are balanced and a good plan rather than just a way to let rich people’s lawyers let more rapists off the hook.
You are delusional. I criticize Trump myself in multiple comments on this thread.
It is absolutely irrelevant who proposes changes when debating whether those changes are good or bad. Even Hitler enacted some good laws. Does not make him less Horrible person or excuse other things he did. But my whole complaint is that so many people are now unable/unwilling to discuss the actual policy on it’s own merit and you are proving me right.
Instead of forming your own opinion on the policy based on rational arguments, all you can do is “TrUmP bAd, PoLiCy MuSt Be BaD.”
Which part of this are you on board with?
Because all I see is opportunities for rich boys’ lawyers the chance to disrupt a school exclusion meeting and turn it into a media circus debating the victim’s sex life in detail, and if you think that isn’t how that plays out, you haven’t been paying attention.
Your point is entirely based on trashing other people’s skepticism that the rapist president might not have young rape victims interests at heart, and I have to call out your gullability on that point. It’s absolutely not irrelevant that Trump himself is a rapist, and repeatedly insisting that it is defies logic.
Because you are willfully blind.
Title IX hearings are not public, nor is anyone arguing they should be public. It’s just a strawman argument you and people like you are making.
I am trashing peoples inability to actually think about and evaluate a policy for themselves. So yes, I trash people who have to resort to trashing Trump instead of being able to intelligently discuss a policy.
I am not the gullible one here.
You give off strong "I’m not a Trump supporter, but… " vibes because of how you can’t abide people mentioning that the USA’s Rapist in Chief tried (and failed) to sue his rape victim for libel and that that might just have a bearing on him proposing to bring expensive lawyers into a school exclusion meeting.
Removed by mod
And yet here you are, defending Trump as if he’s listening or gives two cents for you.