• naeap@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    13 hours ago

    There is a difference between Anomie and anarchy

    Just because there are no leaders/rulers, doesn’t mean there are no social rules or morale values.

    A law doesn’t keep one from doing bad stuff.
    Else we wouldn’t have murderers.

    But society must grow and develop. At the current state anarchy probably wouldn’t work…

    • breadcat@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 hours ago

      a law doesn’t keep one from doing bad stuff

      that’s true, they need to be enforced somehow…

        • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 hours ago

          That doesn’t prove that not enforcing them would somehow make murder disappear, it just proves that you can’t absolutely eliminate a behavior. Every action has diminishing returns.

          I can remove some of the heat from an object by putting it in the fridge. I can remove more by putting it in the freezer, but that requires more energy. I can remove even more by using more and more sophisticated scientific equipment, but I can never reduce the temperature to absolute zero. That doesn’t mean the soda in my fridge isn’t colder than one on the counter.

          Perfect results aren’t obtainable except in trivial cases.

          • njm1314@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            5 hours ago

            To your point though diminishing returns. When is it worth it. You’ve just a conceded that enforcing said laws don’t actually prevent the crime. I would say enforcement never prevents any crime and enforcement is about punishment not prevention. So when is it worth it? What level totalitarianism an authoritarianism is worth it? How much abuse and Injustice is necessary to assuage your fears about the other? Surely you’re not going to sit here and tell me only fear of punishment is what stops you from murdering people?

            • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              12 minutes ago

              Saying “enforcement never prevents any crime” is just naive. Say what you want about the american justice system, but even over there, they’ve incarcerated repeat offenders of assault, robbery, etc. where the incarceration itself most definitely prevents them from harming more people.

              If you’re talking about actual prevention, just look to the programs enforced in several European countries that have provably been very effective in taking people who have been living off crime and turning them into productive citizens of society.

              Yes, it’s been shown several times that fear of punishment is extremely ineffective at preventing crime. That doesn’t mean law enforcement doesn’t prevent crime. Putting a person that abuses their family in jail most definitely prevents them from continuing to abuse their family.

            • theparadox@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 hours ago

              What if we focused on resolving systemic issues that might provide motivation to prevent crime? What if we focused on rehabilitation instead of punishment for that that commit crimes anyway?

              Sure, you can take any idea to an extreme and shriek things like “authoritarianism!” but that means nothing.