My god, even the best chance for socialism is hopeless because of the dollar. “it’s not doomer because the party could do something different” idgaf day after day it’s more dollars and less long term hope. Nothing China does can matter because all the green energy, all the bnr, all the poverty elimination, all of it is paid for with imperial currency and little to no interest in changing this arrangement from within. The party will talk about win-win arrangements and mutually-beneficial cooperation until the fucking nukes are flying.

  • plinky [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    14 hours ago

    Oh, i meant structurally, as in weight in global economy. Assuming all else equal, getting 2.5 billion people good life ™, will shift the productive forces in the global south into higher gear, china either consciously (if commies) or unconsciously (if porkies) will have to build out productive capacity in the rest of the world, simultaneously reducing western pie (no sense in being coffee harvester for 0.50 cents an hour if chinese funko pop factory pays 2). While it is not, strictly speaking, good from climate perspective, the alternative from the west is getting murdered on the border, so, let them do their stuff with cheap solar and shit working conditions (or good working conditions), its good in either case, because the alternative is getting shit working conditions and getting killed.

    Higher order thinking says capital is not, exactly, sound, profit-wise, but that includes lots of fat they can shed in consulting/advertising/lawyering/lobbying to recover, so ai might give some time there

    • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      13 hours ago

      It’s not good in either case imo. Cuz obviously China and the CPC are not comfortable remaining in typical third-world economic conditions of total subjection to the West which excludes this “compromise” situation going on for much longer and if I understand what you mean by like… a “commie” type or “porkie” type of path of development in the world…

      1. China consciously helps the the third world to “develop” (redevelop, achieve economic existence on an equal standing) along an anti-imperialist and communist line kinda similar to the USSR

      The world is divided again into the imperialist and anti-imperialist blocs, led by the US and China, respectively, cuz the imperial core cannot allow the periphery to exist on an equal relationship without the current imperialist world system shattering and an economic crash, basically total self-destruction of the current economy of the West, like NOTHING ever seen. The contradiction between imperialism and anti-imperialism is irreconcilable, yet the only forces capable of actually permanently resolving the contradiction are the anti-imperialist ones

      Results: If imperialism is successful, again, then the nations of the anti-imperialist bloc will be forced back into third-world conditions and total subjection to the West. If anti-imperialism is successful… there is no imperialist contradiction anymore and the proletariat can actually address climate change and uhhh idk I can’t even imagine how incredible that would be, no words timmy-pray

      1. China “unconsciously” (porkies know what they’re doing) “develops” (exploits) the third-world via the export of capital to the third world and the extraction of surplus back to China

      The world is also divided, this time into 2 imperialist camps also led by the US and China, respectively. The CPC has totally given in to its revisionist line, who knows what that looks like yet it is possible. The contradiction between the 2 imperialist camps is irreconcilable and can only be resolved with the destruction of one of them

      Results: Possibly world-ending imperialist war, WWI with nukes and drones and missiles and global computer networks and figuratively-boiling oceans

      Cuz poverty reduction is not socialism on its own and there’s two ways “shift[ing] the productive forces in the global south into higher gear” cuz of higher living conditions (read: higher input costs for labor that makes profit go down) can go and that is along an imperialist or an anti-imperialist line cuz this exact thing is what led to the current imperialist world system happening. Is probably way too early to say and I should look into wtf China is up to in the third world with their development contracts but I REALLY don’t like thinking about “Chinese funko pop factor[ies]” paying 2 whatevers currency units an hour and I think we should never be thinking that way is good cuz that is just imperialist surplus extraction done by someone other than a Burgerian lol and only leads to the same place even if a world war ran by the worst people on the planet doesn’t blow us all up