- cross-posted to:
- feminism@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- feminism@beehaw.org
In the hours following former President Donald Trump’s election victory, Google searches related to 4B — a fringe South Korean feminist movement that made a name for itself in the mid to late 2010s — surged in the United States.
Back when the majority of women available to date were leftwing, men didn’t get more leftwing. It didn’t happen. Women in the youngest voting demographic on exit polls were something like 61% voted for Kamala, whereas the men it was 45%. If your theory was right (and not just an excuse to blame women for men’s abuse), those numbers would be equal. Men like power over others, enforcement of rules, and feel entitled to the patriarchy and that’s why conservative movements appeal to them as they get older.
No, if my theory is right, then we would see a rightward shift among men as they lose contact with left-leaning women. We won’t know for sure that I’m right until a) this movement becomes widespread and b) fewer than 45% of men vote for the next democrat. I’m not blaming women for anything. I’m saying that this would be an ineffective political strategy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Okay, your theory would still be true BEFORE the election and 4B movement though. And it wasn’t, because the 4B movement responded to men becoming more sexist. Men left women to be sexist. Women were already rolemodeling good behavior and men went elsewhere.
We know you’re wrong because men already were surrounded with leftwing women and chose to abuse them instead of respect them.
Men age 45-65 are below that 45% mark and their wives are traditional and obligated to fuck them out of wifely duty. What women do is largely irrelevant to whether men will be abusive or not. That’s a moral choice the man makes. So let’s make it less convenient for them and add in natural consequences, like natural hatred for people eroding our rights.
Hey now, I’m 56 and married and not “obligated” to do anything. Not even my mom was, though her mom was. I don’t think that’s a thing anymore, or if it is it’s not in my particular generation.
I do agree that women aren’t responsible for abusive men, though.
I don’t know anybody who is being celibate as protest but do know more than one woman who gave up on men to just date women.
??? My theory is about the 4B movement. The hypothesis is that if it were widespread, we would see a rightward shift in men. That is, we would expect them to go from 55% voting red to >55% voting red. This hypothesis has not been tested yet.
I’m in favor of this. The only thing I’m not in favor of is telling guys that didn’t vote for abuse that they’re the exact same as the guys that did.
So if that’s true, then why isn’t the opposite true - when more leftwing women were fucking men before 4B, why didn’t the men get more leftwing? They got more rightwing. Why?
I really don’t care about this conversation. The 4B movement has affected literally zero political change in Korea, and that’s really all I should need to say.
If you don’t want to date men, you shouldn’t.
Lmfao you suddenly don’t care because I am right and embarrassed you.
Oh, so now you claim 4B has no effect on men? I thought your hypothesis was that it would drive men rightwing. Suddenly 4B has zero political change. Huh. It’s almost like your original argument was disingenuous.
I beat men for substantial amounts of money, and fyi even if you had the money I would refuse you. You are transparently a danger to women with everything you say.
No, I didn’t really care in the first place, and I didn’t feel like explaining how introducing a change (say, separating women and men) might have an effect that not introducing that change wouldn’t. The default state has been men and women having relationships, for the entirety of history. Women didn’t suddenly start having more sex with men in the last 4 years, so you wouldn’t expect to see any change in voting demographics based on that no change. I care even less now, because we’re so deep in these replies that I don’t expect even one other person to read this paragraph. We may as well be arguing in DMs, which I don’t do.
My assertion that it doesn’t matter in the first place is because the 4B movement has existed in Korea for years, and hasn’t successfully affected political change. I suppose I could have clarified that my hypothesis about a successful 4B movement is predicated on there being a successful 4B movement, and my dismissal of it as a way to affect political change is based on the fact that it demonstrably does not affect political change.
Yes you care so little you had to write a paragraph about it. It’s definitely not a cope for losing.
You claim that in South Korea, 4B had no effect. Now you claim it will have an effect in the US. Why the difference? Please note we both agree that 4B has no effect on whether or not men will harm women.
Since the advent of birth control, which kicked off the free love movement, women have increasingly been having more sex, with a peak shortly around the release of Tinder and for about 5yrs after that. Women have since become less sexual and are abstaining more these days, especially young women.
You’d have to pay me to DM me. I’m not asking to DM.
Political by definition:
As a political movement for women, like you know, if you consider women people, 4B is highly effective. It’s letting women tell other women about these issues. It’s popular with women. Maybe 4B just isn’t about men.