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That is correct. They might work, but in context they are not “working people”
Here “working people” is synonymous with “working class”. Thus, not landlords and shareholders obviously
I’m curious about your definition of shareholder; what if I owe £80 worth of fractional shares in an app-based investment service? Does that make me a shareholder?
It’s not my definition. It is the definition that is being used in context in the article. Read it before commenting
The definition being used is proper and common in modern usage.
It certainly doesn’t make you a worker.
Then your income wouldn’t be affected in any real way by raising taxes on those shares and getting cross that Starmer taxing unearned income is affecting you badly is bothincorrect and missing the point.
Starmer is raising tax on unearned income instead of working people’s taxes, which is very fair for a change, and you’re splitting hairs over definitions of who counts as workers. You’re so missing the point.
I agree with everything you’ve said.
I think if Starmer said “we aren’t going to raise tax on personal income, but on capital gains” he wouldn’t have to tie himself in knots trying to define “working people”.
I’m not trying to split hairs; it’s Starmer (who I, for clarity, support) that’s refused to be clearer about what he intends to do and ends up having everyone debate what “working people” means.
The challenge is that they clearly want some kind of threshold where personal income is also additionally taxed, and that’s when “working people” becomes a weird “I’ll know it when I see it” debate.
FWIW, I’m in the highest tax band and I support raising the highest tax band AND raising capital gains tax. It’s not Labour’s intent I disagree with, it’s their crappy own-goal communication style.
There wasn’t any way he could have communicated this that the Torygraph wouldn’t turn into “Strarmer lied and broke his promises to working people”. Saying it the precise way doesn’t make for good campaign slogans.
I suspect they planned this. If he had said “we won’t raise income tax and we won’t raise employee national insurance contributions”, he’d be giving a massive hint as to what he was planning, and the inevitable interview question would be about employer contributions and he wouldn’t be able to rule them out, and then all the headlines would be about “Starmer promised to not raise national insurance but now he’s let on that he’s planning to after all” and all the news would be about Labour’s tax rises and all this arguing would be happening before the election. A bit of ambiguity and headline management is unfortunately necessary.
Truth hurts I guess.
Comrade Starmer lmao
He’s right though. I’d very much like a PM to take a hard line on these chuckle fucks.
Nothing “comrade” about it. It’s just sense.
He definitely is. It’s refreshing to finally even hear this sentiment from our government. However it’s just words, hopefully we start seeing some positive changes in the rental and housing market.
I’m super dubious because Starmer has done very little to earn my trust, but I would be very keen to be surprised, or even proven wrong
Very small scale landlords are often working people, and lots of working people own shares. That said, the bigger landowners and stock holders are much less likely to be working people. Those fuckers contribute nothing of value to society.
No landlord is a working person, otherwise they wouldn’t be landlords.
I know plenty of people who work full time in real jobs, and also rent out a house. Renting a single building doesn’t give you enough to quit your job where I live.
Nor are you a landlord while doing another job. If you are doing your own investment work while being paid a PAYE job. You are also a thief, but I doubt you have that recorded on your payslip.
It may sound silly. But so is the whole claim of this article. Starmer never said or even suggested landlords cannot work. He was asked the question, in relation to the Labour Party manifesto pledge not to raise “working taxes”
His answer was “not under the definition we are using” (for working taxes)
It is an utterly pathetic attempt to so division to claim “Starmer suggests landlords and shareholders are not ‘working people’”
He definitely did not say it and the telegraphs use of the word “suggests” makes it clear they know that.
It is nothing but an outright lie designed to sow division.
That may be the first thing he said that I agree with him on ever.
I mean, he’s right. The whole point of my mother leveraging her home to become a landlord back then was because she had a stroke and literally could-not-work. Landlords aren’t working class. They’re just investors.
Of course they’re not working people. They are leveraging capital to give them an income. That is not the same as chopping wood and carrying water.
Or filing accounts.
Yeah you may be younger, but let’s remember many folks my grandfathers age did not consider white collar work, to be work.
That idea is as far from correct as this article. Anything that is taxed under PAYE is working taxes. As the Labour Party manifesto and Starmer called it.
Shares growth of property and renting is taxed as capital gains.
Owning a business is the one that depends on how you choose to do it. Most sole traders are by definition covered under Income tax if self filled rather than PAYE.
If you have registered an LTD, you have a little more choice. And most accountants will advise you do not pay yourself as income tax. So you will be treating your labour as an investment. And here we see why the wealthy want false claims like thi in the right wing media. Because there is a possibility, that advice may change in the future and business owners will lose some tax advantages to a pay lower tax % than their employees.
As a landlord (I own two properties) and as someone who also works full time I agree with him.
It may take up some time but ultimately it’s an investment.
Landlords like myself aren’t (typically) struggling, so we should pay more tax, especially now as the country needs it. I am proud to say I don’t tax dodge and pay what I owe. But unfortunately there are many loopholes that can be exploited to avoid paying tax. Just a few weeks ago someone was telling me how I should put my properties under a LTD company to avoid paying tax (I didn’t and won’t). I hope the Labour government does more to close these loopholes for tax dodgers.
Thank you.
Because he is correct
And, as everyone here says. He is correct. It is an investment. Not work. Yes you are taking a risk, that is the point. If you work, you should not be taking a risk. But instead paid for your labour.
Unfortunately, saying it here doesn’t matter. Papers like the telegraph and other Tory press are not going to care about the facts. They only care about creating division.
More importantly, Starmer et al. Are also not going to make the effort to argue this case. No effort is going to be made to push forward the true difference between working class income and actual investment income.
Anyone watching saw this argument starting during the election. It was clear then when labour started talking about working taxes. The Tories instantly started arguing that the Tories were talking about not raising taxers at all. Anyone watching saw this discussion forming.
And Starmer et al. intentionally ignored it rather than draw attention to the difference. They will not bother to fight the terminology now either.
Rare Starmer W
Broken clock moment.
Context for this statement?
Is he pandering to beat down brits?
He’s a self serving neoliberal who doesn’t give two fucks about the working class.
He has made it clear all along that he is nothing but a corporate and establishment shill, and while making this one accidentally accurate statement about landlords, his party is planning to, for example, go ahead with pretty much the exact same cuts and abuses (E: like the government having unlimited access to the bank accounts of all benefits claimants) that the Tories had planned for the poorest in society, along with trying to force as many sick and disabled people in to work as they can (without providing any more support or income to help this happen of course, just more punishment for those who
can’t“refuse”). Landlords will not be getting any of the same treatment.His statement doesn’t reflect any moral leanings, nor a will or intent to change anything for the better.
Yesterday I heard they were reducing the amount people on universal credit can have their payment reduced for utility debt etc, which is good. It’s not all completely horrible, there are some silver linings.
They do no labor, they create no good, they accomplish no service. Literal rent-seeking.
Well I remember when I used to rent I don’t remember my landlord ever doing anything. He owns the property but he certainly didn’t maintain it.
I don’t know why they seem to think they are. Yes some landlords do labor, but that labor is to maintain and improve value of their income from owning things.
That landlord aint much of a lord
Yeah he’s a relative who started as a handyman and kept investing in rental property.
a relative who started
as a handymanin the working class and keptinvesting inhoarding rental property so they could exploit others for profit and an opportunity to correct what they believe is their “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” status.
I dont often agree with this Tory in disguise, but in this case he’s right.
Owning shit isn’t working. Why is this controversial?
Because the right wing media wants it to be. The answer is simple.
Cool if owning property is work. Let’s abolish capital gains tax and charge it as income.
Because at the end of it. That is what the telegraph etc is saying. They are trying to argue Starmer agreed to hold all taxes when the manifesto clearly stated working taxes.
Cool call their bluff all capital gains is now charged as income tax.
Ain’t capitalism grand.
Well no other system would sell a waxing kit to a yeti.
So I spose its… unique
Nor does capitalism to be fair…
It’s certainly… something.
