People refusing to vote for Harris becuase of a foreign conflict they understand nothing about is peak stupidty.
Granted, I don’t know much about the conflict. I’ve read about it on Wikipedia and it gets more and more nuanced and complex at every turn.
HOWEVER.
There are candidates who advocate for stopping the killing. This is not a high bar. This is a bar I would like to see Kamala reach.
Why aren’t you asking Trump to advocate for stopping the killing?
Hm, honestly, that’s a good point. Why is it always Kamala under fire?
“How dare you protest!!!”
Literally all Kamala has to do is announce a plan to stop war crimes and gain these votes back. The fact she won’t is on her, not on the people concerned over Gaza.
By the way, I don’t support Trump, I don’t think you should vote for Trump, but if you want to protest by supporting third parties until Kamala changes her policy you have my full support
Usually they live in blue states that will partially insulate them from the consequences. Or they’re young and don’t understand knock on effects yet.
b-but the… the genocide!!1!!1!11!
(/s obviously, I don’t like it either)
I genuinely don’t know what passes by their brain, but I got banned from commenting on a community on hexbear because I was saying that their little third party wouldn’t win anyways and by voting it they were helping trump, and every response was just calling me a genocide apologist because of my support for the dems.
It seems like they can’t just reason properly
It’s just very odd to me when they say both sides, but trump has openly stated he wants the military to fire live rounds at people protesting in support of Palestine.
Or that trump wants to genocide* Latinos. Or that he has said he wants the military to purge people that don’t support him.
*yes he said deport, but when the cost of such an operation starts rising then he’ll start pushing to instead kill people to lower costs. That’s how it goes every single time this rhetoric takes hold.
Dem centrists are too lazy to try to influence their politicians to do the right thing. And they pretend the politician is powerless to change their stand. They can change their stand. You can apply pressure during an election. if you’d just try. But you all pretend you are powerless, and then call everyone trying to pressure harris shitty names.
Pretty sure people are gonna die regardless of which genocidal wacko is elected.
then might as well elect someone who will do good things in other sectors instead of removing medicaid and deregulating industries
The elections haven’t happened yet. Withhold your support for Harris until she changes her mind on Gaza
People are going to die no matter what. It’ll be different amounts though. One of the two has called for Israel to “finish the job” and constantly talks about how he likes what they’re doing. The other condemns it, but is criticized that the administration isn’t doing enough, which is fair, but also I know who I’d want to win if I lived in Gaza. I don’t think the people there care how good you feel about “keeping your hands clean” and acting morally superior. They want to live, while these people want to play games.
Have you considered listening to what they actually say as opposed to projecting your own beliefs onto them?
Yeah, because that worked out so well when in 2016 when Trump got elected, the GOP got multiple Supreme Court picks, multiple federal judges were given life terms, and Roe vs Wade got struck down. Let’s see how that plays out when Ukraine falls, war breaks out in Europe, America becomes a theocratic dictatorship, and what little progress we may have seen with the environment completely falls apart and the world goes full tilt towards becoming an uninhabitable hellscape. Whatever the protest was about will be utterly meaningless.
If you want to protest, you protest AFTER you get sympathetic ears into office, not after you get the opposition elected. Trump gets in, then suddenly he’ll give you plenty to protest about, vs protesting when Harris is in office and she actually has a willingness to listen to protests and meet their demands.
If you want to protest, you protest AFTER you get sympathetic ears into office,
This is exactly why the railroad strike failed lmao.
Even UAW’s future strike plan is May 1, 2028, which is strategically a presidential election year, 5 months before the election.
The UAW struck after the railroad strike. And got Biden to personally come down to ask the what he could do to secure their vote. Both happened while Biden was in office. What are you even saying about why the railroad strike failed?
Oh wow a link with absolutely no context or synopsis!
“Eight of 12 unions had ratified the deal.”
I guess the synopsis can be “Unions approve of Bidens handling of railway strike.”
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At no point has a protest pushed any president left, regardless of party.
That is an insane statement. The civil rights era was full of protests and change. The Vietnam War ended because of protests. There are many instances of protests pushing presidents left.
We forgot how to protest didn’t we?
Turns out when the rich and powerful set out to hamstring the ability of people to organize in the workplace, and spend a lot of time covertly policing political orgs they don’t agree with, well, people fall out of practice in being part of a community and organizing that community. If you then make every place that someone might want to build communities with other a place to extract money from, it’s real hard to build it all from scratch.
Yeah it wasn’t the protests, but the threat and follow through of violence
Sure. Those went with the protests. Protests aren’t all peaceful, hence why “peaceful protest” is a term.
Everyone who doesn’t support a corporatist duopoly is lazy, dumb, and/or working for the geopolitical rival to my dominant hegemonic country!
One can only wonder why you have not convinced more people with your message and Harris is now losing.
It’s like we learned nothing from history:
Democrats constantly coming up against fascism and fumbling the bag is always someone else’s fault.
Nader, Howard Dean, ACORN, Citizen’s United, the SCOTUS, lazy uniformed voters, radical leftists and tankies, the Internet, the DSA, Russia, 16000 green party voters in a state with 4.5M ballots cast.
Two organizations are never to blame. You can’t blame the Democrats, because they are the most hyper-competent data-driven poll-optimized party to ever exist. And you can’t blame the Republicans, because they just worked harder to win based on their strong fundamentals and simply convinced more people with their very popular fascist policies.
When Dems win, they have to compromise with Republicans to achieve a bipartisan consensus. When Dems lose, they have to capitulate to the Republicans because that’s what the voters asked for.
Paid to fucking lose. I swear to God.
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Who else is looking forward to–regardless of the outcome of this election–being told throughout 2025 that it is of vital importance that we get in line with the Democratic party above all else so that we can ensure that the Republican candidate does not win the 2030 election?
I voted party for socialism and liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian liberation and an end to arms shipments to israel.
They’re eligible for enough electoral votes to win in an unprecedented landslide!
Even if you can’t protest, door knock, phone bank, picket or boycott, you can still use your vote to tell the two major parties that you won’t accept their genocide.
De La Cruz is a place holder. Nothing more. She’s untested, has no win condition strategy that makes any sense in reality and serves only as a spoiler, and has a barely above zero chance to win.
DO NOT FALL FOR THIS BULLSHIT.
She did nothing the last four years to earn your attention let alone your vote. She has no strategy to make anything she promises actually work because she knows has shown to have little knowledge about how politics work.
DON’T WASTE TOUR VOTES ON THIS NONSENSE.
Even if what you said were true, I’d gladly pick an untested candidate who is against genocide over a battle hardened pro genocide one any day.
Of course, what you’re saying isn’t true.
I will vote for the placeholder candidate when the place they’re holding is the one marked “no genocide”.
If people voting for psl spoils the democrats chances then maybe the democrats should adopt the psl platform in order to win.
You and I already had a conversation where we discussed psls strategy, so suggesting that there isn’t one especially in a reply to me is pretty sus.
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How are you being censored?
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I would say they feel there is no personal/social benefit from electing one over the other. The reality is the tarriffs and mass deportations are the stupidest fucking I’ve ever heard and likely will piss away more money and people than COVID did.
Why not both OP?
They are either Russian trolls or children who have a Disney level perspective on politics, I think. They don’t want to recognize that they have very limited options or the harsh realities surrounding them.
Not sure which depresses me more.
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because the say the other side would be worst
Are you saying otherwise?
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I’m not American you dummy.
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All the Germans I’ve met were super nice people. You should get out more.
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Lol what amazing, perfect country are you from?
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What a principled, wonderful person you are lol
No one on lemmy has ever made this argument and as usual this community of redditors in disguise believes in the hopium of a candidate more conservative than Obama will change her mind about genocide.
And that people are just gonna vote for her with that reasoning.
No one on lemmy has ever made this argument
Here is someone just three days ago arguing with me about how shaming Trump is shaming people who “oppose genocide,” and then calling me a nazi for having to vote within the two-party duopoly if I want to reduce Trump’s chances of being elected.
no one on lemmy has ever made this argument
Proceeds to make the same argument.
It really depends on which state you live in whether or not you have the luxury of a protest vote. If you live in NY state that has a 20% lead for Harris, sure, some people can vote Jill Stein or something. But if you live in a state that actually might be close or not an obvious blowout, you can’t vote that way. You actually have to be tactical with your vote, not idealistic or symbolic.
Back in 2000 I traded my vote for Nader in a swing state with someone in a solidly blue state. We should do that now.
Whenever I hear people pushing the, you’re either with us or against us, kind of rhetoric it makes me shake my head. It should go without saying, but obviously it doesn’t, that you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic. If you actually want to convince them to vote, you might want to consider making a plan for how to reasonably sway their views.
Or don’t, do whatever you want, it’s your life.
you don’t get to tell other people how to vote, and if you try to, they’re going to think you’re a raving lunatic
Umm…that’s the entire way we select leaders. The entire campaign for any office, high or low, is telling people how to vote. That’s literally democracy in action.
And it is not wrong to tell people that if they want third party candidates, the path to do so is to start with voting reform. I’m in Oregon, and we’re actually making progress on this instead of just removed about it or running spoiler third party candidates. We have ranked-choice voting on the ballot this year. If it passes, all our state and federal elections will be decided by ranked-choice voting. We’ll actually make it viable for progressive third party candidates to run for our US House and Senate seats without just serving as a spoiler for Republicans. We’re actually doing something about the two party duopoly.
But you never hear these anti-Kamala trolls suggesting doing something that would actually make a difference. They show up every election, and their platform is ALWAYS “don’t vote for the democrat.” Doesn’t matter what election. Doesn’t matter what year. They always find some reason that you shouldn’t vote for the Democratic candidate. Their criticisms always attack the Democratic candidate and ignore the Republican.
They’re clowns and trolls. Nothing more. They removed about the two-party duopoly, but they don’t actually want to do anything. The truth is they’re actually just Republican trolls.
LOL, what rhetoric? I’m generally of the opinion that voting is an end in itself in democracies, and wish we had mandatory/compulsory voting laws. If you live in a democracy there should be obligation to vote, and the citizens should feel confident that we are accounting for the will of the people. But with the electoral college and first past the post system, there are realities of outcomes. There are really only 2 possible outcomes of a presidential race. And if you live in a swing state your vote does a lot more to tip realize one of those 2 outcomes. So the motivation to vote should be to help achieve one of those 2 outcomes that you find more preferable. If you live in a state that is not even close, that is when you don’t have to worry much about your vote impacting the outcome and therefore have more latitude. I’ve voted 3rd party in multiple elections, but I did so in good conscious knowing I wasn’t impacting the outcome of actual leadership due to the area I vote in. In pure rational choice model, sure, your individual vote likely won’t matter (how often is a race decided by 1 vote?), but if the level of effort to vote is low, might as well do it just in case and for a sense of moral civic duty to a democracy.
Kinda like a tactical wee?
Half the Lemmy population is born in Russia. Other half born in the Soviet Union.
Are we doing 2016 again??
Becuase that worked well for your team haha
Fucked around with bernie, found outnwith trump🤡
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If he is, then US Security Apparatus knows and dont care…
So which one is it?
