The U.S. will send Ukraine an undisclosed number of medium-range cluster bombs and an array of rockets, artillery and armored vehicles in a military aid package totaling about $375 million, U.S. officials said Tuesday.
Officials expect an announcement on Wednesday, as global leaders meet at the U.N. General Assembly, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy uses his appearance there to shore up support and persuade the U.S. to allow his troops to use long-range weapon s to strike deeper into Russia. The following day, Zelenskyy meets with President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris in Washington.
And a little more debt for Ukraine.
most of which is default-able. The rest is probably going to be paid back inevitably, due to ukraine receiving a massive industry boom post war for shit like drones and stuff.
Not to mention the rebuilding of the economy.
The post-war part is another different thing. But telling someone that’s on fire “pay me for putting the flames down” is inhuman.
we’re not telling them, i think ukraine is even asking for them at some points. Ukraine agrees to the loans, and like i said, i think some amount of the money is default-able loans. So it’s not actually “debt sharking” here.
If it’s an ally and NATO is defending human rights and democracy (I know, I know) it should be “free” for Ukraine.
If ukraine is an ally, i understand that to be fairly recent, prior to zelenskyy the president of Ukraine was a russian plant. I believe he was voted in about 2014 or so.
NATO is primarily an alliance between members of the alliance, of which ukraine is not a member. Protecting members outside of NATO is not really inside the purview of NATO as an organization, although protecting border states is politically advantageous.
anyway, i tried looking for some data and didn’t have much luck, but even thinking about it from a strategic position it wouldn’t make sense to loan shark ukraine here. Worst case scenario they collapse after winning due to the loans, and then russia takes over, or they collapse during the war, and we have to deal with getting that money back, because it’s marked as a loan, which wouldn’t really make any sense.
I think the idea is relatively simple, it provides a way for ukraine to borrow money, assuming they win it provides them a way to pay it back or default on it, and that allows ukraine to stay relatively neutral. Just giving free money to ukraine is probably less than ideal.
From the research i did do, i couldn’t find anything talking about how it would be problematic, it was mostly talking about numbers which makes sense, so i guess that checks out, but i would’ve been surprised if nobody had reported on that either.
“A little more debt for Poland and France” - bufalo1973 in 1944
What would you suggest Ukraine do instead?
My point is that this is not a helping hand but a business for the arms dealers.
lil bro on the internet discovers that in a globalist capitalist world, that even military conflicts are burdened by the concepts of capital itself.
Then they shouldn’t sell it as “help”. If you help, you help. If you sell, you sell.
Edit: and I know the World is mostly a shitty place but that doesn’t make me less angry.
yeah and we aren’t selling them weapons, we’re giving them money to buy weapons. Instead of just, giving them weapons they probably don’t want/need.
We are donating a lot of weapons globally, but universally money is still required, and money can buy weapons so…
Okay, again, what would you suggest Ukraine do instead?
.ml want Ukraine to surrender. That’s pretry much it.
They don’t care about the people
They don’t care about the US taxpayer’s money
They don’t care that the weapon companies profit
They just want russia to win.
“Having a discussion” is just smoke and mirrors with them.
I know, but I like to give them enough rope…
I don’t care about ML. What I say is that this is NOT HELPING. It’s MAKING A PROFIT on someone in need. Helping would be “I give you the weapons to defend yourself and we will pass the bill to Russia”, not this.
hence why we keep giving them massive loans. And sending them old equipment from our military, and sharing intelligence with them, and providing public media support for them as well.
War is more than just capital my friend.
also this is literally what europe is looking to do with their stockpile of frozen russian assets.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
well then you’ll just have to wait until this war is over i guess.
Why are you pressing that question as if Ukraine is an independent actor?
Because… they are? Unless you share Russia’s opinion on the matter.
Why are you refusing to answer the question?
You can’t refuse to answer a question that was never directed at you.
The fact that Ukraine is a proxy state is spoken out loud by American politicians as well.
Kayfabe is for the kids.
Please provide evidence for this supposed fact.
Also, Putin doesn’t call it a proxy state, he calls it the homeland of the Russian people, which is why he’s trying to make it part of Russia.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/top-us-diplomat-fuck-the-eu
Here’s an article that you’ve already had linked to you a thousand times you may hopefully incorporate into your worldview a decade later. The scandal here is that the US is hand picking their preferred puppet leader instead of letting the EU have a say.
He did in his speech explaining why Russia invaded that I’m absolutely not shocked that you haven’t read or listened to.
Most enlightened tankie. I guess Ukrainians should use rocks, or jedi powers to defend against the orcs?
Or the NATO could give them weapons and pass the bill to the Russians.
It should be interesting to see who pays for this when Russia wins.
Russia can’t win. I don’t mean I don’t want it to happen, despite that being true. I mean there is no winning condition for Russia or Putin to end this conflict. Even if they were to occupy Kiev, they should really remember what happened when they attempted to occupy Afghanistan, because the exact same thing will happen. We didn’t even have to supply bombs and missiles, just some shoulder mounted surface to air shit, and the Russian occupation was completely halted. The Ukrainians aren’t going to give up, even if Russia declared victory.
What’s worse is that I’m not certain if we have passed the point where Russia literally cannot make enough people for this war to not cripple their economy and political power for the next century or so, but they’ve lost so many young men that if we haven’t passed that point yet, we will by the end of the year.
probably russia