I have given up trying to find a girlfriend. Even though, I am outgoing, have hobbies (I dance, which is actually filled with women), go to parties, talk to plenty of women. But I keep hearing the same thing over and over again: “I am just not so into skinny guys.”
I think this is fair from the woman’s perspective. I for one am only motivated to date attractive women. So, them not wanting to settle for less actually makes very good sense to me. There is absolutely no hate or bitterness regarding that. Fuck all that: ‘all women are removed’-noise.
That being said, I think I should just consider myself celibate by virtue of my own standards. But now bitterness is starting to take hold of me. Bitterness about my life and to me as a person. As I said I am very outgoing and don’t want to become the cynical asshole around my friends.
So how do I stop this?
Edit: I go to the gym on a regular basis.
TLDR: be happy to be alone, truly and genuinely. then it won’t matter if you find a partner, but you will be able to choose them with a clear mind if you do.
I’m basically a complete flip of you physically but I had the same problem for a loooooooooong time. I’m a tall, strong, heavy woman, and all i kept hearing was “you’re beautiful, I just don’t want someone taller/stronger/heavier than me”. I totally get it, I didn’t want to be taller/stronger/heavier than my partner either. But I’m like Fezzik- “it’s not my fault I’m the biggest and the strongest, I don’t even exercise”. except I did do cardio to try to slim down, I’m just built to survive famine I guess. ¯\(◉‿◉)/¯
What I didn’t understand was the ones who said they just wanted to be friends, because i just wasn’t their type, but would happily be fuck buddies, so long as we kept it hush hush. ಠಗಠ
Anyway, eventually after a bunch of very bad attempts at relationships where I took way more BS than I should have because I was just that hungry for affection, I decided I was just better off being single forever. I couldn’t seem to find a decent person who was attracted to me both physically and intellectually, so I decided to just stop looking. Not just stop looking, stop wanting. I actively wanted to be single for the rest of my life, in large part because I was just tired of the pain of being lonely. Like, “Jesus titty fucking Christ, we’re gonna cry ourselves to sleep because we’re SOOOO sad we’re alone AGAIN?! FFS, JUST STAHP!” So I stopped wanting a partner. I found I had so much more time and energy to do the things I was passionate about when I wasn’t futzing with all that stuff. I became the queen of getting shit done, remodeled my house myself, landscaped my yard, built a garden, went to the gym regularly, did weight lifting till I maxed out all the leg machines at the gym, and got close to maxing some of the upper body ones too. I was happy being single. I WANTED to be single. I craved my free time, the peace i found in solitude was better by orders of magnitude than any of the toxic relationships I’d clung to in the past.
After about two and a half years of that, a long time friend/ acquaintance started coming to me for massage ( I’m a deep tissue massage therapist with a focus on injury recovery and pain relief) and we would just talk throughout the sessions. Politics, philosophy, movies, anime, music, goals, food… Just everything. Eventually, after we’d just spent two more hours talking in the car after the two hours talking in the session, he said “Sooo… you know I’m flirting with you sometimes, right?” I turned him down. I said, more or less, “I’m happy single, I’ve had such a garbage time dating that I can’t pretend I’m not a decent part of the problem. I value our friendship and don’t want to hurt your feelings, and I’m not NOT attracted to you, I just don’t want to date ever again.” He was completely chill, said “no worries, no is no even if you’re attracted to me too. if you ever change your mind, let me know.” And he dropped it, never brought it up again… And fuck if that wasn’t the sexiest thing I’ve ever seen. We kept being friends and talking and spending time together, talking about goals and wants and life plans and we found that our wants and goals in life were so in line it was uncanny. Importantly, neither of us wanted to get married, neither of us wanted kids, neither of us wanted to live with a partner ever again… It seemed like I could keep my peace, my space, my autonomy, AND have a partner who cared about my mind and emotions while also finding me wildly attractive. So we talked about what dating would look like and agreed to try it. It’s been 2.5 years so far and I’ve never been happier in a relationship. I still think if we stopped being romantically involved I’d probably prefer to go back to staying single, but I’m happy with him as a partner.
I tell you the whole story, kinda long and rambling as it is, because I don’t think I could have found a happy relationship if I had continued to want one with the same frantic energy as I had previously. I don’t think I would have been a person who could be as open and honest as I was with who I was if I’d still wanted a partner when we started to really get to know each other. I don’t think I was a whole person when I was looking for my “other half” and I don’t know if you can really find a good match if you’re not a whole entire person on your own. If I could distill the idea down to it’s core, I think it would be: be happy to be alone, truly and genuinely. then it won’t matter if you find a partner, but you will be able to choose them with a clear mind if you do.
be happy to be alone
That was a very moving story. I going to try this. Hell or high water I will try. Not for the possible prospects but for me. Thank you for sharing!
Also:
¯\(◉‿◉)/¯ ಠಗಠ
I like these.
( ๑‾̀◡‾́)σ» then you also may like these
Hell or high water I will try. Not for the possible prospects but for me.
This is the right mindset!
Yay! I’m glad it helped. X) As to the faces, I use Gboard and there’s a ASCII art library in the list of emoji/gif options. It’s quite entertaining. (￣³￣) ⊂(・﹏・⊂) ᕦ(ಠ_ಠ)ᕤ (ノ｀Д´)ノ彡┻━┻
I wish I could upvote this more than once
Well, technically no one is stopping you.
“I just don’t want someone taller/stronger/heavier than me”
I hate this so much. It’s the inverse of women who will only date tall men.
Speaking for myself, I like women. And that means all kinds. It’s so hard for me to imagine seeing a woman who falls outside the “standard” and being turned off by that alone.
I stopped being so upset by it once I started examining social systems and propaganda. If you’ve been conditioned your whole life to think of women as weaker and smaller and someone to be protected to maintain your “manly state”, someone who doesn’t fit that mold is a threat to your subconscious sense of self worth. Same for women who don’t want to date shorter men, “if I’m not the property of someone who’s the biggest and the strongest, I’m worth less to this society.”
‘Society’ thinks men who are smaller than their woman are weak, and that the woman must be defective or she’d be with someone who ‘fits’ better. They’re dead wrong, but that’s the unexamined subconscious judgement that our society has conditioned into people. It’s easy to be less upset with individual people when you realize they just haven’t had the space to examine the abusive systems they’re forced to exist within.
Comments like these are why I love lemmy.
It’s true that the more you want something, the harder it can be to obtain lol
Sometimes you just have to be zen about it and then it can happen naturally.
Therapy. Also focusing on your hobbies and filling your life with joys that don’t focus on a datemate. But definitely therapy.
I wish there were another answer, I’ve wondered similar things myself for many years and therapy is always the solution everyone suggests.
The problem is, where I live therapy is only available to wealthy people. It’s not something I’ll ever have access to :-(
Cognitive behavioral therapy workbooks work almost as well without a therapist as with one. You just have to have the self discipline to actually do it.
“I’m not so into skinny guys” sounds like an excuse, if you are getting it a lot I think there is something else going on here, not all women even have a type and some surely like skinny guys, some of the hottest men I’ve been with were so skinny, it can be a very attractive look on a man.
Since you say it’s your own standards, what do you mean? Do you think you are sort of batting out of your league looks-wise? You are already dancing so your body is probably in good shape, is there anything else that makes you think you are not physically attractive? May I ask how old you are?
You are outgoing and social, perhaps try practicing flirting? Like, without trying to take it any further?
Do you think you are sort of batting out of your league looks-wise?
Yes, definitely.
is there anything else that makes you think you are not physically attractive?
My arms and legs are particularly skinny, like Ballerina level skinny.
May I ask how old you are?
I am 24 years old
You are outgoing and social, perhaps try practicing flirting?
I find flirting difficult. Because I never want to make it obvious and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not.
You’re very young to have decided that a partner will never happen for you.
The very best thing you can do is socialize without expectation of partnership and learn to have fun and enjoy flirting with people without the intention of following through. When you can get with a bunch of friends, laugh and flirt and go home alone and feel good about it, like appreciate the joy inherent in those moments without ruining it by pining for more… you will be doing yourself two favors.
One, you’ll stop feeling like not dating is celibacy - it’s just where you’re at.
Two, you’ll become much more attractive to potential partners, and you’ll find folks won’t care so much about your looks. The vibe will be way different, for real, because of the self-confidence inherent in enjoying your life without needing anything from anyone else.
Bonus - You might find, by flirting with people you have no intention of sleeping with, that your tastes expand. Just don’t tell a woman you’re not following through because she doesn’t meet your physical standards, that will get you in a dating blacklist in no time.
Your last statement stands out to me. Have you considered that it’s the way you interact with whoever you’re interested in? Rather than your looks? Are you nervous, self-conscious, whatever? I’m asking because you keep insisting that your interested in individuals out of your league. That thought would make me nervous. And on the flip side self-consciousness or awkwardness or nervousness or whatever is not very attractive. Socially it’s more acceptable to rejected someone based on looks though.
Have you considered that it’s the way you interact with whoever you’re interested in?
Are you nervous, self-conscious, whatever?
I honestly have never thought of it in great detail. But where would I be able to get feedback on this?
Any trusted friend who’s been around to witness you meeting new people should be able to tell you.
This helps. First, I think work on your own self confidence. A dancer’s build is an ideal body type for a whole bunch of people. If you feel like more definition in your arms would help YOU (I don’t think it’s the sticking point looks wise but might help you see your own hotness), do push ups, and weighted squats and lunges will help with the dancing, skinny is the easiest body type to get into shape, such a small adjustment.
On the flirting, yes obvious is good, and funny, remember you are just practicing here and enjoy yourself. Subtle is likely to be missed.
On your actual question, I am older so have been through dry spells and remember feeling frustrated way more than bitter. Build a good life you enjoy, and it may be attractive to others, or perhaps not, but either way you will have a good time. I don’t mean there aren’t external forces, but your own attitude and actions are what you have the most control over.
‘I never want to make it obvious’
This is a huge red flag to women, what you’re essentially doing is trying to create a power imbalance where you maintain the safe and defended position of acting not interested while they take all the social risk of putting themselves out there. This gives you a much better position in any conversation or disagreement and it allows you to hold the power of humiliation over their head - a situation no one wants to be in.
The fact you’re targeting women in this way that you feel are more attractive than you exacerbates it because it makes it seem that you don’t really care about them at all and just want to tick the hot gf box.
People often say that women hit on men in happy relationships and this is somewhat true but not because they’re horny homewreckers but because the guy has stopped acting creepy and manipulative towards them and just seem like decent normal people. When you say you don’t flirt what you mean is difficult to tell because you’re obviously targeting these women and talking to them, even asking them out and getting rejected apparently so I don’t know what you’re actually doing but it’s not acting normal, friendly, and like you consider them anything but a target to throw your Pokeball at.
No one, including you, wants to date someone that doesn’t make them feel good and add to their lives in a positive and joyful way - in what world does ‘you’re hotter than me therefore I want you as a possession I can have sex with’ make someone feel any of those things? That’s the vibe they’re getting when you refuse to give them even just flirting, who is going to say ‘oh i met this guy, he’s cold to me and makes me kinda feel awkward I can’t wait to spend more time with him’
Make someone feel good, enjoy spending time with you, and demonstrate that you’re the sort of person worth getting to know better - which by the way includes being open to self change and personal improvement. Let them see that they will be happier in a relationship with you than not being in a relationship with you.
And this means also that you have to find someone that will be happier in a relationship with you, women aren’t interchangeable and they exist on a much more complex scale than ‘hot body = value’ which is where your head seems to be stuck, looks are one of the least important parts of a relationship which is lucky for a skinny ballet arms boy like you… you need someone you can talk to, can laugh with, can feel safe with, can grow and explore with.
And yes if you don’t want that sort of relationship and want a woman that only cares about outward appearance then get jacked and earn a shit load of money, seems like a miserable life to me but I’m in love with a fat woman (who I admit is very attractive) because we understand each other and support each other and enjoy each other in ways I never even knew possible - we bonded over shared interests, fell in love over long and tender conversations, and worked through difficulties by being honest and caring.
No one, including you, wants to date someone that doesn’t make them feel good and add to their lives in a positive and joyful way - in what world does ‘you’re hotter than me therefore I want you as a possession I can have sex with’ make someone feel any of those things?
What I meant was I don’t make it obvious not because I want to make them feel unloved or something but to prevent making them feel uncomfortable. I talk and treat everyone like we’re just friends (because for the most part we just are). If the woman from her end shows she’s interested in me than I try and go along with it.
But I am here to learn, so could you then please tell me how do you properly flirt with someone then?
It’s a been a long long time since I was dating, anyone who turns you down and says “sorry you’re too thin” is best avoided to say the least.
In fact I’m having a difficult time believing you keep hearing it, because it’s so rude.
Or it’s clearly just an excuse and there’s something else about OP
Be it my weight, face, or my personality, it actually hardly matters. Bottom line: There is an (innerly or outerly) ugly person who only wants to date attractive people, and by that they cannot get a partner. If that’s too much of a stretch for you, then there is no point explaining.
So you’re mad that people have the same criterias you do?
Did you even read my post? I am bitter about the fact I can’t find a partner, yes. That’s nobody’s fault. I perfectly understand and accept as to why. But yes I can still be bend out of shape about my loneliness.
You’re certainly ripe for the taking for the incel movement I can tell you that…
Wtf is wrong with you? OP is literally walking down the path opposite to incedom. Fuck off troll.
Pointing out their hypocrisy?
You’re a real beacon of positivity, huh? And you clearly didn’t read their post.
It could be an excuse to avoid the real reasons. If OP really wants to know the full story, he could ask one of the women who said this to be 100% honest with him about all the reasons she’s not interested.
That depends a lot on the sort of women he’s approaching. If he’s mostly approaching strangers he probably still won’t get a different real answer - if they’re brushing him off like this there’s a reason and “please be honest” isn’t going to change it.
This might work with an already good friend that he asked out, but that doesn’t seem to be the situation described.
I believe it. My sons are tall and thin. People say things to them that they would never say to a short or heavy person! When they were younger, older women would offer to buy them food in bars, like they were thin because they were too poor to eat.
Your comments are only about appearance, and thus shallow. Have you tried shifting focus to people rather than what they appear to be at first glance?
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I do not deny it’s shallow. I am absolutely not savoury when it comes to that (though I do need her to also have similar interests). Be that as it may, I just don’t develop any romantic feelings for them otherwise.
Dude… from your interactions in here, i am beginning to not like you either. If i was a woman that you’re talking to, using your outter looks to reject your personality is maybe more gentle than saying you treat people like npcs or that you are annoying.
Yeah, couldn’t agree more. He doesn’t sound like he even likes women, just feels he should own one and probably wants regular sex (on his terms only). I almost feel guilty writing a post trying to help him.
just feels he should own one and probably wants regular sex (on his terms only)
I never, ever said nor implied this. English is not my first language, so maybe I didn’t phrase it all that well. I rarely ever even flirt with women because I’m afraid it will make them uncomfortable. I, as any other person, seek companionship. I know it sounds shallow to put emphasis on looks. But no matter which way I shake it it is an important factor to me. Otherwise it just feels like another friendship to me. I can’t change myself in that regard. And the results speak for themselves. So here I am seeking help to at least not feel bitter about it.
I don’t know what to tell you. I only blame myself for being this way. And every woman I meet has every right to refuse me. I do not deny that. I think my bitterness about my life is unfounded. Because it’s all by virtue of my own choices. I do not want to feel this way. Not to gain favours from women but for myself. For that I ask help. That’s it. Sorry you feel this way.
I wonder though. Two things - one, I think you probably look better than you think, if you dance and go to the gym I’m sure you are already in good shape and not too skinny. You probably look better than you think, it’s normal to see yourself with a hypercritical eye, try to look in the mirror and pretend it’s someone else. And as someone else mentioned, ask for feedback from your friends, who see you more objectively.
Two - what kind of looks, that you think are so far off from yours? I mean, if you are finding plenty of women who meet your standards, maybe this is a misapprehension and you are not as picky as you think, nor as far apart in looks from those you find attractive . If you have impossible standards, that’s certainly something to work on, but maybe you are just thinking about this in a way that makes it feel impossible when it’s not.
It can never hurt to take a step away for awhile and just work on yourself though. Be a person who you like, keep doing the things you love and enjoy them, let go of trying to date for a time, be nice to yourself.
Much of the advice in this thread is either “Do xyz and you’ll have better chances!” or “It’s ok to be unattractive, it doesn’t mean you’re bad! Feel better!”. But that doesn’t answer your question.
It hurts, a lot, to not have intimacy for extended periods. It can burn, it can ache, and it can be a slow, subtle sort of pain. It can give rise to bitterness, as you call out, and to anger, sadness, listlessness, frustration.
Why don’t you want to be bitter? It’s a painful thing that is happening to you. That feeling isn’t wrong, it’s telling you something. If you feel a lot of pain and then suddenly stop feeling pain, that is very bad - it usually means you’re dying or your nerves are damaged. There’s no quick fix or silver bullet that will allow you to hold this like an old stoic, it’s just a lot of work.
There’s three places you can intervene: thoughts, words, and actions.
Thoughts are where this starts. If you don’t have bitter thoughts you won’t have bitter speech or actions. When you have bitter thoughts, just let them be. Don’t spiral - feeling bitter about intimacy isn’t great, but feeling bad about feeling bitter strengthens both, and it feeds itself from there. When you notice yourself spiraling or wallowing, just stop. Find a distraction or will yourself better or whatever, just don’t let it feed itself. Meditation might help if this mental action is difficult. If you can find a positive channel for these emotions (which is quite hard to find), use it!
Speech is the first layer where this can affect others, but it’s significantly lower stakes than actions. Generally, be conscientious. People can’t willingly un-know things so be careful with what you share. Don’t vent unless someone willingly signs up for it (which you can ask friends to do!). Don’t put this out like it’s a problem for someone else to fix or the worst thing that ever happened. It sucks, but it is manageable - you are managing it. When you make mistakes, point and call them. Say out loud “I did/said xyz, that was a mistake because abc, sorry, next time I’ll do/say mno instead.” This helps make a memory for you and others so you actually fix things and opens the door for feedback.
Actions will hopefully only come into this positively. Do the things that make good thoughts and speech easier. Learn to recognize how frustration and anger and bitterness feel in your body so that you can better notice+control them in the moment, and so that you can physically release that tension/sensation. If you feel urges to hurt others or yourself seek therapy.
It sucks. It hurts a lot in ways that many don’t understand or sympathize with. And it is itself a significant barrier to intimacy. I haven’t figured it all out myself, but I hope this helps. Good luck.
Agreeing with others. Enjoy being alone, enjoy having fun what you want to do, and masturbate. Life has a funny way of working out when you stop giving a fuck and focus on enjoying life.
Here’s the thing about people…every one of them is different. You could be white, and find a girl who only dates black guys. You could be black, and a girl only dates white guys. You could be fat, skinny, or muscular. And you could run into the girl that doesn’t mesh well with your type.
I once saw a guy with nazi tattoos, and he had a nazi girlffiend. I told them they could go fuck themselves. They laughed it off, but I wasn’t joking.
Point is, if you think of yourself as not getting dates because you’re skinny, find the girls who like the skinny guys. If a nazi can get a date, so can you. You just gotta find the right crowd. I know two girls who likes red headed irishmen with freckles. But I bet somewhere out there is a red headed irishman who thinks theres no girls for him because he has too many freckles. Little does he know he’s a panty dropper with these two specifically.
Find your person!
Do YOU love yourself for who you are? Do you accept yourself and all your imperfections? Is there anything you are not happy with about yourself that you can change?
This is all that matters. Stop trying to push things and appreciate what you have. If there is something about yourself that you can change, then change it. Otherwise, stop worrying about what others think and learn to love yourself.
When you figure this out and learn this, everything else will follow. How can others love you, if you don’t even love yourself?
Understand its not your fault and you shouldnt blame the world. Everyone goes through this at some point (esp guys) - be it skinny, fat, coloured or not, tall or short. Everyone has their preferences.
Giving up on actively finding a girlfriend is probably the best thing to do in your situation - but not out of spite - some women find an attractiveness in someone who has fun in their own presence. People want to be a part of that joy. Being bitter will only drive away friends and potential relationships.
With that said, do your own thing. If being skinny bothers you (and you alone, not what anyone else thinks), hit the gym and eat more? Try more activites either solo or with friends. Maybe even some extreme sports which a partner would otherwise not join you in. Just enjoy life and someone will come. I know people who found relationships in the most unexpected of times and places.
I understand theres an inch in the intimate department that cant be scratched with just normal friendships but idk, resist tbe urge or find other outputs to bring your urges back down enough so you can just be you and comfortable
If being skinny bothers you (and you alone, not what anyone else thinks), hit the gym and eat more?
And take up beer drinking. You’ll gain 30lbs.
Try alcohol free beer if you like your liver or don’t want cancer
All in your gut
In addition to the advice already given, I would suggest you look at mental attractiveness as well as physical attractiveness. Physical attractiveness can be a ton of fun but then when you actually start living with the person if they aren’t mentally attractive/compatible with your personality then they can be really hard to live with. Look for someone genuine and kind and into the same sort of things you are.
Well, it sounds like you’re going after women out if your league because you think they’re attractive and that’s a valid choice. But it is a choice you’re making. It sounds like you could have intimacy if you lowered your standards or increased you attractiveness (gym etc). Or you could abandon dating to not have to face rejections.
So I think the key to avoid bitterness is to reevaluate if the choice you are making still works for you if it brings up bitterness. Then you can either stay with your choice or switch, if you don’t think any other option brings less negative feelings.
And if you choose the best option for you, there’s no need for bitterness.
What do your woman friends say?
I never asked them to “rate” my looks. If that’s what you mean.
I think they mean to ask for honest feedback, it’s quite possible your lack of success is linked to the mindset you have. Expecting to fail us one of the most common reasons to fail, but knowing that success requires a lot of failure is a much healthier approach.
Have you you tried therapy to work through some of these issues? It’s helped me quite a lot
I think they mean to ask for honest feedback, it’s quite possible your lack of success is linked to the mindset you have.
Oh I see. That’s actually not a bad idea. I’ll try and ask them.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Ask the women in your life for advice.
I used to be very skinny, like 58 kgs at 186. I met my wife when I was 18 and she loves skinny dudes 😂
Regardless, I did feel self conscious about my skininess because I was bullied for it in school. I’ve both accepted myself, but I also gained about 15kg of muscle by doing starting strength. I’m by no means ripped, but I do feel like I carry myself with more confidence and that goes a long way.
Also, my dude, take this from someone in a 20 year relationship… Looks are neat and all, but finding someone you can actually stand, spend a lot of time and plan a life with is a significantly more worthwhile trait to pursue.
Same, I hate muscles and fat on guys. Although that’s difficult to admit openly since a guy saying he is into heroine chic would be a social outcast, so why should it be acceptable if a woman says so. I like skinny guys and my husband is skinny af. I am by no means unattractive either.
My question to OP is - you seem to get rejected because of your looks, yet these beautiful women (by your standards) went out with you in the first place if I read that correctly. So there must have been some attraction in the beginning. At the very least they talked to you. But something along the line happened that made them not want to commit to you.
In general, we find people attractive because we like them. We don’t like them because we find them attractive.
It can very well happen that when you meet someone in your everyday life and get to know them and then happen to fall in love, they absolutely don’t fall into your “scheme” or “type”.
“celibate by virtue of my own standards” … I was not aware I belonged to a club which viral acronym does not exist yet
“Choosy beggars”.
I think that might be volcel? as in voluntary celibate?
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Well, is not like I can really chose what I “like” (my standards) beyond a certain point, most of mine at least are not a rational decision, I do not feel like I can really force me into tastes…
How about Stancels? We are celibate due to our standards?
