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As far as I understand Israel doesn’t claim that it didn’t bomb a school area, it claims that it was filled with terrorists and had to go.
If I’m understanding this right, Israel is saying “this is the price that Gaza pays because we have to kill the terrorists” while also trying to minimize to the press how many civilians were actually caught up in these bombings.
Basically killing Hamas is above any Palestinian human rights for Israel, though I suspect that if the world wasn’t watching, the genocidal government there would actually just straight up give orders to kill them all.
No need to suspect. They’ve said many times that global opinion is the only thing curbing their genocide.
Nice, just straight up admit to it.
At least they are honest, right?
i’m not sure the israeli government thinks there are civilians in palestine
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It’s okay though, that ceasefire is totally coming any day now.
Please ignore their constant immediate rejection of their own plan and assassination of a negotiator, Biden administration totally gonna make it happen any day now
They have it in writing (leaked months ago) that some ridiculous number like over 1000 Palestinian civilian casualties were acceptable if they got to kill a terrorist.
Also, anyone in colors or in proximity to Hamas members or known gathering areas in the last 2 years, is automatically labeled a terrorist by Israel
Basically they pretend to have a formula to regulate civilian casualties but they have twisted its variables so far that any scenario can be solved by bombing no matter the collateral damage
technically they didn’t twist the variables, they just lied, or vastly misrepresented them.
Just yesterday I was playing the Batman telltale series. In it, Mayor Dent, during his descent into becoming Two Face, blows up a city block in Gotham in an attempt to thwart a terrorist organization. Two Face was put in a mental asylum for the action. I vote we do the same thing to Netanyahu.
Haven’t the schools been closed for several months now? There shouldn’t be any civilians in there, let alone kids.
Civilians are sheltering in the schools, since, you know, they’re running out of buildings.
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What about terrorists in the refugee camps? They need to bomb them in case the next trump is amongst them
There shouldn’t be any civilians in there, let alone kids.
Drop enough bombs and you can be assured there isn’t.
Fuck, Israel needs the gaza treatment.
No. Nobody needs the Gaza treatment. Jesus christ.
Fair. It just makes me angry seeing what they’re doing. Thanks for calling me out.
I don’t think the guy you are replying to should be called Jesus Christ, it doesn’t matter much to me as an atheist, but I think Jesus was against all this nonsense.
(This is a joke)
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Aha, but the precision strike was on the small first floor window on the north side of the block. The school was evidently on the east side of the block, many many centimetres away. Please ignore surrounding blocks completely destroyed by bombs.
School is actually the whole block, there’s a white outline
My mistake! Then that must have been the classroom with the terrorist inside.
The kids have no right to be outside if it is not recess.
Only terrorists are outside during non recess hours.
There was a pipe going from the window all the way down to the Hama’s Tunnel under it with the terrorists.
The fighter jet of the brave Zionist tresistance just thread its way at low level between the rocket launchers of the evil Palestinians and hit that small hole causing the destruction of the entire evil outpost.
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The school tag is integrated to the mapping, it’s then screenshotted and the red location marker is overlayed.
This is on whoever took the screenshot and didn’t hide the school marker first. Pretty certain it’ll be a straight forward menu item lmao.
that makes sense, checks out. Although it does look like theres a white outline on the building of the school tag, so this is either a really specific map. Or someone actually made that by hand for this image. Though im guessing the strike tag was added over top of that still.
They forgot to thank Biden, Harris and The USA for the thousands of bombs they have provided for Israel’s genocide. and the coming 20 Billion more of military support.
Listen, this might have looked like a school, but I assure you everyone inside that they killed was an October 7th terrorist.
They had thousands of miles of tunnels under there, with a million rockets ready to be fired. All supplied by Iran.
These school bombings were in self defense. And if you think otherwise, you’re Antisemitic
The tens of thousands innocents, mostly children, that Israel has slaughtered have been semites. So I’m not even gonna call you an anti-semite. You’re just a heartless prick.
He is being sarcastic
I did not get that vibe at all. Until MAGAts crawl back under their fucking rocks, sarcasm is gonna still need to end in /s. I already have a hard enough time being autistic.
The problem is really all the undiagnosed autists who aren’t picking up on the sarcasm, treating it as fact, and then bringing it to the ballot box.
do we even know how complicit biden and harris are for this shit? They’re just the administration, it’s the congress pushing the funding bill, and the bill passed, i feel like we should probably be focusing on the 500-600 odd members of congress that are seemingly fine with this instead of two people who are quite literally just sitting at the top of the chain.
there’s a lot that biden could have done ages ago. as things looked back when it first became obvious (at least to me,); if Biden had vetoed the aid package, that likely would have signaled a seachange in the dems and made the package not-super-majority proof.
But the first big one, they did lump it in with Ukraine and Taiwan specifically to get that stuff through republicans. Biden could have at any time vetoed the spending bills.
he could also have admited that they’re doing a genocide- or at the very least fucking warcrimes and be like “we need to hold onto that while you sort yourself out.”
The thing that pisses me of the most is that Biden is getting his zionist smeared across Harris- but I think she could actually be persuadable- but not if everyone is being assholes about it. She’s just not presently in a position to set policy. I hope I’m not reading it wrong and that her silence right now is… to not upset whatever the fuck Biden actually is doing. Because. as idioticly pathetically impotent as Biden is proving on this issue… I don’t think he’s just ignoring the genocide altogether. he’s not trump.
there’s a lot that biden could have done ages ago. as things looked back when it first became obvious (at least to me,); if Biden had vetoed the aid package, that likely would have signaled a seachange in the dems and made the package not-super-majority proof.
it would’ve also denied aid to ukraine as well as humanitarian aid to palestine, and if the package hadn’t been cucked by republicans so hard it would’ve also denied the border funding as well, though they blocked that independently themselves.
But the first big one, they did lump it in with Ukraine and Taiwan specifically to get that stuff through republicans. Biden could have at any time vetoed the spending bills.
this is extremely normal with large funding bills like this, it’s just how you get these bipartisan supported bills through.
he could also have admited that they’re doing a genocide- or at the very least fucking warcrimes and be like “we need to hold onto that while you sort yourself out.”
i mean yeah, but the US hasn’t exactly had the cleanest record when it comes to war crimes either. I mean we started numerous wars for shits and giggles.
It’d be nice to see this conflict resolved, but unfortunately i think a really big detriment to that goal currently is a lot of the palestine dialog that is just super aggressive and highly toxic. It also doesn’t help that it seems to be their only issue that they care about. Single issue voting has never once solved a problem. I think a lot of the democratic dialog right now is very front facing, there’s very little focusing on actual policy and specific issues that aren’t extremely marketable. Shit like palestine just isn’t a massive concern for the majority of the population, though i’m sure they would prefer it stopped. I imagine there’s going to be a lot of behind the scenes work to clean this shit up, if they get elected. Democrats tend to be all bite no bark.
What is this supposed to tell us? Hamas used these as bases. Why shouldn’t they (both)?
That’s not true, but let’s assume it is. What’s the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
3-1
It most certainly is true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas
Doesn’t excuse the Israeli administration, but Hamas 100% uses human shields, schools included.
I will need to see concrete evidence that these people were, in fact, members of the terrorist resistance before I believe claims that they were. However, we are currently assuming that all claims of terrorists being present are true for every strike. I would like you to know that I selected these strikes at random.
- This claim states that there were 19 terrorists and 93 total killed at the Al-Tabi’in mosque and school on 08/10/24. Survivors state that most of the casualties were women and children. That means there was a 79.6% civilian casualty rate.
- This claim states that there were 9 confirmed Hamas casualties of 40 killed at a school in the Nuseirat refugee camp on 06/06/24. The casualties were described as children and elderly, and this strike was verified by the source as using US munitions. That means there was a 77.5% civilian casualty rate.
- This source claims that there have been (as of 07/06/24) 343 IDF soldiers killed and 38,000 confirmed Palestinian deaths with Israel claiming 1/3 of deaths are combatants. 66% civilian casualty rate since October 7th.
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
I read earlier this year that Israel considered 100 civilian deaths for one Hamas fighter a fair trade. I can’t find the exact article, but it was about their use of AI in deciding targets. According to this article a “10% failure rate” is totally acceptable. So, anywhere between 9-1 and 100-1 is within parameters. Children are a points multiplier.
10% failure rate implies they fail to hit a millitant 1-10 times no?
I would assume success isn’t bombing random people.
I couldn’t find the article i was looking for, and it’s basically a rhetorical nswer to a rhetorical question. So, please take my cheek with a grain of salt.
fair enough
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
just to humor you, statistically you could run a theoretical simulation of whether or not getting rid of hamas entirely now, saves more potential human lives, than simply letting them exist. It’s very possible (since this is the middle east) that it would statistically make more sense to completely get rid of them now. Such that they cannot exist in a similar capacity in the future.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet…
There’s no where anyone can be that doesn’t have a shit ton of civilians around, and due to the treatment of people who live in Gaza by Israel… A lot of people in Gaza are children.
That’s the whole reason the international community has been saying for almost a year you can’t just flatten everything.
But they keep doing it. Because Israel sees civilian deaths in Gaza as a feature, not a bug.
The question they asked is in presumption for this to be true.
Your non-answer speaks volumes.
What is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
If you don’t know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
The question is kind of bullshit though. It’s meant to either get the other side to have an emotional response and say none or to be what you want perceived as a piece of shit and give a number. Let’s try it on another question.
How many child deaths are permissible before we ban bicycles? Cars? Jump rope? Pools? If it’s not 0, how dare you sir or ma’am. We’re talking about children here!
There is a reason certain buildings are off-limits unless it starts being used by the opposing force’s fighters. How would you fight a war against someone if they could just strike from an ambulance and then drive off, scott-free?
Also just want to throw out there that this type of thing is exactly what those who would use human shields want you to do. “Back off or we will put more civilians in front of us.” Then they will publicize the aftermath to help their propaganda war.
If you don’t know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
the rational answer for “how many deaths in war are ok” is also zero, but that’s literally never happened.
War incurs casualty, and it also incurs civilian casualty, it’s simply impossible to have a 0% rate.
why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
this is also stupid, how do you think they catch pedophiles? Most of the time it’s through CSAM. Physical or digital, and if it’s physical, they’re producing it, and if it’s digital, it’s being sourced somewhere. Those sources are a real easy get in exchange for a potentially lighter sentence.
I am also anti war so yes. I also dont judge life based on age but emotional sentiment does spread the ideal of stop killing eachother please.
The practice you described while i know this true in the US it may not be legal or moral elsewhere
I believe Europe has specifically forbidden “entrapment”
Entrapment: Law enforcement must avoid entrapment, which involves inducing someone to commit a crime they would not otherwise have committed. This is generally illegal in Europe and could lead to cases being thrown out in court.
but emotional sentiment does spread the ideal of stop killing eachother please.
entrapment is also illegal here in the US? It’s legal to “bait” someone here though. you can sell drugs, and then get someone to buy them from you without influencing them, then arrest them, that’s perfectly legal.
like im pretty sure it’s a legally protected thing in the constitution?
Governements can interpret laws however they want but i am pretty sure that some of that baiting is considered entrapment.
Feeling tempted to buy drugs is not a crime, acting on it is. If the undercover cop wasn’t selling they may not have gotten tempted at that exact point of weakness.
Realistically it probably depends more on your lawyer and the jury then the letter of law though. Thats seems The same anywhere.
Acceptable child to terrorist death ratio is legitimately 2:1 and accept 3:1 only if we get to eat the children afterwards.
Do you have the coupon?
The wiki says they are accused of it but lists many reports which found no evidence of this. In the current conflict there are apparently a couple of cases with hostages.
The big problem with most of these claims is that it’s “proximate” shielding being alleged, which is not when you are literally shielding someone (as in the recent cases with Israel using Palestinians, and assumedly those with Hamas using the hostages), but when you are just sat at home, in school, whatever, going about your usual business totally unaware. But you are a “shield” because the enemy decides they want to attack something near you.
This quote really sums up the rhetorical strategy:
“Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv are not classified as shields when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center. By sharp contrast, Palestinian civilians are cast as human shields when Israel bombs Hamas command centers and military infrastructures in Gaza. In other words, if Hamas kills Israeli civilians, it is to blame, and if Israel kills Palestinian civilians, then Hamas is also to blame, since, at least ostensibly, it is Hamas that has deployed these civilians as shields.”
It is a trick so that Israel can avoid responsibility for it’s actions. I’m not saying you are supporting Israel or denying their crimes (I know you explicitly didn’t), but this rhetoric is WAY more common than genuine instances of human shielding, which thus far has primarily been done by Israel, not Hamas.
Likewise, this isn’t excusing Hamas. Fuck them. But aside from the case with the hostages (didn’t check the reference but I trust it), there is very little evidence that Hamas does this. Most of the time it is an outright deception.
Edit: this is from the report cited by wikipedia:
A witness said that as Israeli forces advanced, the fighters phoned the Israeli police using one of the hostages as an interpreter, identified themselves as from the Qassam Brigades, and told the police that they would shoot those they held if the Israeli forces fired on them. During the standoff, the attackers forced about half the hostages into the yard of the home between Israeli forces and the fighters, according to two witnesses the New York Times interviewed. A man the attackers said was their commander took off his clothing and took Yasmin Porat, one of the hostages, outside to shield him as he surrendered to the Israelis. After the fighters fired again at the Israeli forces, an Israeli tank opened fire on the home. The fighters were killed, as well as 12 hostages who were killed in the crossfire.
So clearly it does happen. But cases are rare and on both sides of the conflict
when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center.
Mate, they lob unguided rockets in roughly the right direction. They are not targeting jak shit.
Ballistics can be predicted and modeled, I’m sure they can do the math for targeting. There’s a lot of room for errors, but don’t assume they’re just just blind firing.
Cool wikipedia article. But you should check out current reality sometime.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
- https://truthout.org/articles/israel-systematically-uses-gaza-children-as-human-shields-rights-group-finds/
- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-01/ty-article/report-israeli-soldiers-filmed-using-detainees-in-gaza-as-human-shields/00000190-6f2b-d6fc-afba-ef7b8ad20000
From you first link:
Hamas has also been accused of using human shields strategically by the UN Secretary General,[16] the European Union,[17] the United States,[18][19] along with Israel.[20] Launching rockets and positioning military infrastructure in civilian areas has been observed in various conflicts, including the 2008, 2014, and 2023 Israel–Hamas wars although is not considered as human shielding according to human rights organizations.[7] These actions have been criticized by various international bodies, including Amnesty International, which has documented instances where Palestinian militias stored munitions in and launched rockets from or nearby civilian structures.
Your own excerpt says they were accused, and that it has not been recognized as Human Shielding.
Where as I’m certain I’ve seen videos of the Israeli military walking naked Palestinians through mine fields, shelled buildings, and into tunnels. I will not look it up again, I just simply wanted to point out that you’re terrible at reading.
Your own excerpt says they were accused, and that it has not been recognized as Human Shielding.
that doesn’t mean it isn’t happening at all? The ICJ hasn’t even finished proceedings and people are calling it a genocide even though we quite literally don’t know yet. It’s pretty common for the militaristic tactics in the middle east to be very flexible let’s say. So it wouldnt surprise to me learn that they’re at least doing things tangential to human shields, like residing in buildings full of civilians, consenting or not, in hopes of not being fucking bombed, or at the very least, for the press it gains them.
It’s not impossible this is literally just a psyop to deter israel from bombing them (which isn’t working) and then doing the same thing but globally across social media. If there are hamas millitants or whatever they want to call them residing in these places, at some point it would be beneficial for hamas if they stopped residing in places with civilians, because it obviously doesn’t seem to be doing much at this point.
Though obviously if israel is just, randomly bombing civilians in the hopes of hitting terrorists, it doesn’t really help. But we have no idea, and we do know that it doesn’t make any sense militarily, so we can assume they’re probably not doing that.
The human shield lie is dead. The majority of structures in Gaza have been bombed and rendered uninhabitable. Israel is just destroying everything indiscriminately and killing anything that moves outside the designated camps.
Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.
It’s already known that Hamas uses tunnels, why would they even be in the buildings at this point? This is just a campaign of total destruction.
Don’t spread genocide denial.
Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.
you realize operating bases are probably in the tunnels right. They certainly aren’t above ground.
This also ignores stationing for the militants, and potential hideouts, for things like… Bombs.
They aren’t bombing the tunnels, they’re just blowing up hospitals and apartments and schools. The tunnels are unaffected.
any ideas as to why they aren’t bombing the tunnels?
Well firstly, the point of the bombing campaign is to make Gaza uninhabitable. The tunnels are irrelevant to that.
But more importantly, the tunnels are too deep to bomb and they don’t know where the tunnels even are. At best they can bomb tunnel entrances, the tunnels themselves require deep penetration to attack directly.
Why would they still roof knock if they indiscriminately bomb everything?
They stopped roof knocking as standard policy back in October. Try to keep up.
Odd that I still see new videos of bombings all the time, from 10 different angles and crowds watching the buildings get hit… I wonder how they knew about the upcoming hit.
Regarding the IDF’s attack policy in Gaza, the source clarifies that the “roof knocking” policy, whereby the IDF has previously used text messages, phone calls, or an initial strike on the roof to warn residents of a building that it is about to be struck, is not the system currently applying. In certain circumstances, it will be used, the source says, but today Israel is already evacuating masses of the [Gaza] populace from central terrorist areas and attacking there.
Odd that you’re just ignoring the literally stated policy of Israel. Stop with your genocide denial. They’ve already told us what they are doing.
Do you have any evidence for that claim
Don’t get me wrong, fuck Netanyahu but Hamas has a well established history of using human shields, schools most definitely included:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas
To claim otherwise simply isn’t true.
Wow examples from 10 years ago proving they haven’t done it for a long time.
Got anything recent?
Israel has a well established record of using human shields. There have been countless cases. Video evidence, etc. Much more than an extremely biased wikipedia link.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
- https://truthout.org/articles/israel-systematically-uses-gaza-children-as-human-shields-rights-group-finds/
- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-01/ty-article/report-israeli-soldiers-filmed-using-detainees-in-gaza-as-human-shields/00000190-6f2b-d6fc-afba-ef7b8ad20000
Lmao just fucking say you support genocide, do you have any idea how ridiculous you look parroting Israeli lies that have been debunked a thousand times over?
Like, we know what you’re doing. It’s really fucking obvious.
duality of man.
“hey guys isn’t it weird that like, people seem to think what is likely classified military information is just out there”
“you’re literally a genociding fascist you fucking removed”
Debunked what? That Hamas stores weapons in schools? Or shoots rockets from there? Sure sure, all fake videos to discredit the humanitarian Hamas that would never do such a thing. Hamas also does not have any incentive to cause as many civilian casualties as possible. They care so much about their people, they even make videos promoting how they rip out water pipes to make rockets , because obviously shooting rockets at you sworn enemy is more important than having water for your people.
Every single innocent person getting killed on both sides is a massive tragedy. But just letting Hamas be is obviously not an option anymore. They need to be removed, just like Nazis in WW2.
how many civilians is it okay to kill to remove 1 hamas
You linked a YouTube video instead of any actual source. Maybe try a little harder next time.
Israel doesn’t seem to give a shit about innocent people so don’t give this shitty IDF PR line about what a tragedy innocent deaths are. 40k dead that are counted in the hospitals that aren’t running anymore. Probably at least 100k more beneath the rubble. Just because Bibi doesn’t want to face the end of the war and his downfall. Maybe he can incite a new war with Hezbollah or Iran before Gaza is a wasteland, so he has more time. My government will surely support that as well. Just awesome shit man.
And there is a huge gap between letting Hamas be and bombing the living shit out of a school full of refugees with some Hamas members in them. Maybe it’s just that my and most people’s standards of not regarding Palestinian civilians as worth nothing are too high for the Israeli government.
how do we feel about the russian death tolls in the ukraine russo war going on currently?
It’s at least 100k, i’ve seen 300k posited, and upwards of 500k mentioned.
not trying to deflect or anything, just genuinely curious.
People who post things like this, especially Linkerbaan, have to believe that the public has access to all of the information Israel and others have about where Hamas is at any given time. Some of the responses here seem to indicate that as well.
I simply don’t believe that’s the case. Imagine thinking that information which is probably secret or top secret (or whatever labeling system Israel uses) that Israel is using to make decisions is probably just online for them to review.
