What’s the solution to the issue of not enough base load? I know there’s a lot of new power generation being built, but also demand keeps increasing so maybe it won’t be enough.
Do we need the government to build a bunch more generation to increase base load? Maybe build a bunch of battery storage to even out the peaks?
It sounds like the private sector has no incentive to build the batteries.
I think it would be more effective to have big subsidies for industrial roofs; a domestic dwelling may have a ~80m^2 of usable area. Industrial buildings have 1000’s of square meters available, with a single feed in point.
A few of hundred industrial buildings could, supply 300MW for 6hrs a day. This would reduce the demand on the hydro lakes. A good subsidy for this would help a great deal.
I think people are generally more supportive of subsidies for individuals rather than businesses. You could subsidise building a massive array of solar panels on a big rooftop but what happens next? Does the company that owns the building own the panels? Does the government pay for the panels and give the building free power as payment for using the roof?
If the govt just gave them money and the company owned the panels, it might be seen as handouts to companies.
The company would own it, a subsidy is there to promote the business to spend the money.
The subsidy shouldn’t be paying for the whole cost. It is there to reduce the payback period to something that makes sense for the company ~5 years or less.
If the government subsidized 30% of the cost, there would be some that would take it up. You would also limit it to a max installed capacity ~1GW - 2GW or so.
But if you have these huge industrial buildings, surely the company is not going to be able to justify covering the whole thing in panels then feeding back to the grid. They would only build what they needed to cover their usage, which is probably only a fraction of their roof.
Depends on the industry…they can use a huge amount of power.
But feeding into the grid is not always the goal, reducing the amount they consume is the same from an energy balance point of view.
e.g. where I work, we have about 4 acres (16,000m^2) of suitable roof, we could generate approx 16MW, we draw ~3 - 4 times that from the grid constantly. During the generating time we would be taking 16MW less from the grid.
I’ve always wondered why solar is popular in home use applications and not so popular in businesses. Since solar generates during the day, surely it makes sense to install for businesses whose peak usage is during the day, not residential whose peak usage is early morning or in the evening.
I think that would be ideal. We would probably need a different setup to encourage people to install more than they individually need, since selling back to the grid isn’t really feasible at the moment (the spot price may be $1000 but your provider only gives you $.10).
I think having home owners being able to borrow money at 0% or 1% is helping to encourage more, though. Just a shame home ownership rates are falling.
Yes, but largely consumers aren’t exposed to these fluctuations. Most people are on plans with fixed usage charges, and the provider takes on the risk of the spot prices. That mitigates the benefits of being able to do this yourself with a battery.
Interesting, thanks!
What’s the solution to the issue of not enough base load? I know there’s a lot of new power generation being built, but also demand keeps increasing so maybe it won’t be enough.
Do we need the government to build a bunch more generation to increase base load? Maybe build a bunch of battery storage to even out the peaks?
It sounds like the private sector has no incentive to build the batteries.
I personally think, off shore wind especially off the Taranaki coast and massive solar install.
China is selling solar panels for really low numbers; the panels are only part of the cost, installation is a big number.
The biggest off shore turbines are 16MW, which is huge.
Batteries are a really good idea, massive solar requires an equally large investment in storage, be it batteries or pumped hydro.
Yeah, pumped hydro is effectively a big battery and shouldn’t have been cancelled.
I wonder if subsidies for solar would help (like they used to do for insulation). Though solar is a lot more expensive than insulation.
Well they worked in Australia.
I think it would be more effective to have big subsidies for industrial roofs; a domestic dwelling may have a ~80m^2 of usable area. Industrial buildings have 1000’s of square meters available, with a single feed in point.
A few of hundred industrial buildings could, supply 300MW for 6hrs a day. This would reduce the demand on the hydro lakes. A good subsidy for this would help a great deal.
I think people are generally more supportive of subsidies for individuals rather than businesses. You could subsidise building a massive array of solar panels on a big rooftop but what happens next? Does the company that owns the building own the panels? Does the government pay for the panels and give the building free power as payment for using the roof?
If the govt just gave them money and the company owned the panels, it might be seen as handouts to companies.
The company would own it, a subsidy is there to promote the business to spend the money.
The subsidy shouldn’t be paying for the whole cost. It is there to reduce the payback period to something that makes sense for the company ~5 years or less.
If the government subsidized 30% of the cost, there would be some that would take it up. You would also limit it to a max installed capacity ~1GW - 2GW or so.
But if you have these huge industrial buildings, surely the company is not going to be able to justify covering the whole thing in panels then feeding back to the grid. They would only build what they needed to cover their usage, which is probably only a fraction of their roof.
Depends on the industry…they can use a huge amount of power.
But feeding into the grid is not always the goal, reducing the amount they consume is the same from an energy balance point of view.
e.g. where I work, we have about 4 acres (16,000m^2) of suitable roof, we could generate approx 16MW, we draw ~3 - 4 times that from the grid constantly. During the generating time we would be taking 16MW less from the grid.
Ah wow, yeah I can see that being a good idea.
I’ve always wondered why solar is popular in home use applications and not so popular in businesses. Since solar generates during the day, surely it makes sense to install for businesses whose peak usage is during the day, not residential whose peak usage is early morning or in the evening.
Microgeneration. Solar panels on every roof!
I think that would be ideal. We would probably need a different setup to encourage people to install more than they individually need, since selling back to the grid isn’t really feasible at the moment (the spot price may be $1000 but your provider only gives you $.10).
I think having home owners being able to borrow money at 0% or 1% is helping to encourage more, though. Just a shame home ownership rates are falling.
If you have your own battery bank you should be able to do your own smoothing when the spot rate goes nuts.
Yes, but largely consumers aren’t exposed to these fluctuations. Most people are on plans with fixed usage charges, and the provider takes on the risk of the spot prices. That mitigates the benefits of being able to do this yourself with a battery.