• OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    32
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    4 months ago

    Let’s say a person doesn’t like certain other types of people (be it due to race, religion, political views, or whatever), and that person also glorifies violence against those types of people and they glorify gun violence in general.

    Let’s also say this person knowingly and willingly (and possibly illegally) puts themselves in harm’s way, while carrying a gun, amongst those same certain types of people.

    Then they get into a situation where they have to use “self defense” in order to escape harm from those people. Luckily they had that gun with them!

    Was it legally “self defense?” Yes, apparently. Could it be argued that it was also “hunting” disliked group of people, as if for sport? Yes.

    Did Rittenhouse successfully use a self defense plea to get away with murder? Some would argue that he did.

    • TheFonz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      24
      ·
      4 months ago

      I agree with your take for the most part actually. This is the kindest response I’ve gotten on Lemmy in the past year since this topic gets brought up.

      Could it be argued that it was also “hunting” disliked group of people, as if for sport? Yes

      He was 17. This fact could easily be argued the other way. In the days preceding the Kenosha riots there were riots in Minneapolis were stores were looted and some buildings burned. About a 1bn in damage happened. Kenosha is a small town where Kyle worked. Could it be he was also concerned about the place his father lived and where he worked?

      Also, just because he received a non-guilty verdict I will be the first to say that doesn’t absolve him of culpability in developing a situation that led to harm. As a European that lived in America briefly (ten years) I was very shocked when I encountered the gun culture there. I understand it but I never got comfortable with it.

      Thank you again for not resorting to labeling me or putting me down. Gives me a little hope for Lemmy.

      • OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        4 months ago

        Could it be he was also concerned about the place his father lived and where he worked?

        Vigilantism is also illegal. It could be argued that had Kyle stayed home those people would still be alive

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          4 months ago

          It could also be argued if the child molester hadn’t chased and tried to attack Rittenhouse that he’d be alive…same with felon skateboard man…and domestic abuser with the handgun.

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          4 months ago

          It’s funny. No matter what I say, that’s all you will attack. It’s all about purity testing and how much of a team player one has to be. Never about what is being discussed.

          In the past I didn’t mention I was left and all I got to discuss was how evil conservative I am. Even though I despise everything conservatives stand for. I really don’t know what to say.

          • ChronosTriggerWarning@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            In the past I didn’t mention I was left and all I got to discuss was how evil conservative I am.

            Honestly, that is an interesting reaction when you take into consideration that you spout right wing talking points.

            • TheFonz@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              4 months ago

              which right wing point did i spout that automatically made me a conservative on all my positions…

                • TheFonz@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  just to be clear: in order to discuss this one topic, i have to bring up my whole bio and charter first right? Otherwise we cannot engage, correct? The never ending purity testing.

                  I align with all left positions: social welfare, gun restrictions, etc. But I shouldn’t have to justify this in order to have a nuanced conversation with someone. This is the crux of the problem. Not even people on the left can disagree about something as basic as the facts of a case that was broadcasted on national television.

                  • knightly the Sneptaur@pawb.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    just to be clear: in order to discuss this one topic, i have to bring up my whole bio and charter first right? Otherwise we cannot engage, correct? The never ending purity testing.

                    I would have preferred if you didn’t try to make the discussion about you and stuck to the points you wanted to make, but you did and now you’re mad about it. Seems like a “you” problem.

                    I argue with liberals about gun rights all the time and almost never bother to state my political alignment, yet they never accuse me of being right-wing because my preference for policies like “arm the homeless” and “disarm the police” can’t be confused for right-wing ideology.

                    I align with all left positions: social welfare, gun restrictions, etc. But I shouldn’t have to justify this in order to have a nuanced conversation with someone. This is the crux of the problem. Not even people on the left can disagree about something as basic as the facts of a case that was broadcasted on national television.

                    You don’t have to justify yourself, you just feel like you do to because you aren’t what you claim to be. Actual leftists argue among themselves about policy all the time, about such niche positions that it might as well take a degree in political theory to tell a Posadist from an Anarcho-Transhumanist. From what you’ve shared so far, you seem to be a neoliberal, which is a right-wing ideology aligned with the Democrats that only seems “left of center” when the overton window is limited to Democrats and Republicans.

                    To put it another way, if you didn’t want to defend your “left” credentials then you shouldn’t have claimed them.

    • yeather@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      33
      ·
      4 months ago

      In that instance the “protesters” create their own bad luck by putting themselves in a situation where self defense rules apply. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        4 months ago

        Would you be saying that about Rittenhouse if he died due to putting himself in that situation?

        • yeather@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 months ago

          Yes, you’re at a protest that had devolved into rioting and looting, whatever happens now is entitely on you.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 months ago

            To be clear: He didn’t happen to find himself at a protest. He actively went to a protest that he did not agree with in order to “protect property”. He purposely put himself in that situation.