I mentioned this anecdote in another thread a couple weeks ago, but I think it fits here too:
It’s not even just chuds ime, it’s the majority of the US population that thinks the “further left” something or someone is, the more “liberal” it is. Even many liberals think this.
A while back I told someone (an acquaintance I met irl) that I considered myself a communist and their response to me was:
“I’m pretty liberal myself, but communism is too liberal even for me.”
There were several other people present and none of them thought this was a strange thing to say.
It may in part have something to do with how only American liberal spaces allow for anyone to say they’re a communist without severe social and professional ramifications.
Can’t say I’ve experienced this. According to American liberals I’ve talked with, communism is just about synonymous with fascism. No way I could mention that I’m a socialist, that’s like an insult towards liberals here. But I also live in Georgia where they ran ads about “radical socialist anti-israel anti-American Fidel Castro supporting communist Raphael Warnock” for the entire election, and that was supposed to scare us, so… maybe there’s the reason. Yes the ads were by the Heritage Foundation
At this point, I honestly don’t know what “liberal” actually means. I don’t even know how to ask/find out. When I was growing up, I always thought it was good.
Now I don’t even know what “good” is, other than not being racist or anti-LGBTQ+.
I would counter relative to the other answer you got that liberalism is based on a leveling of the political rights of citizens while resisting a leveling of economic rights (despite some calls for it even at the time). Feudal governments absolutely were also based on the defense of the rights of their citizens and indeed even some classical slave societies, but the difference is that those societies had [more pronounced and varied] castes which each had different political rights.
Liberalism was a revolution led by merchants and other propertied people against the aristocracy, i.e. people with the greatest economic rights opposing those with the greatest political rights, leaving the former completely unchecked except sometimes by popular power.
Incidentally, and this explains some of the bickering in this thread, communists of all stripes are people who advocate that both political and economic rights are leveled, which manifests as the economy being controlled by popular mandate rather than private ownership.
Anyway, I’m mainly commenting to say if you have other political questions, you can usually get very thorough answers from c/askchapo
Hmm, interesting! I should probably actually check out the Chapo podcast. I have never heard it and folks here seem to be fond of it. I have heard some of the hosts on Cumtown, and they’re very funny.
A lot of people on hexbear hate chapo (despite that being where c/askchapo is, due to hexbear formerly being chapo.chat) but I think it’s alright. The most recent episode starts out with a very informative segment about sanctions.
Draw an equal triangle. One line is ‘public policy’, another ‘private interest’, and the last ‘state authority’.
You can label the two endpoints of ‘state authority’ as ‘left’ and ‘right’.
The third point is ‘liberal’ which lies in opposition to the political spectrum of state authority. Liberals tend to fixate on authoritarianism over whether it serves the public or private interest.
People rarely fall on the points or lines as all concepts are in perfect tension.
I mentioned this anecdote in another thread a couple weeks ago, but I think it fits here too:
It’s not even just chuds ime, it’s the majority of the US population that thinks the “further left” something or someone is, the more “liberal” it is. Even many liberals think this.
A while back I told someone (an acquaintance I met irl) that I considered myself a communist and their response to me was:
There were several other people present and none of them thought this was a strange thing to say.
It may in part have something to do with how only American liberal spaces allow for anyone to say they’re a communist without severe social and professional ramifications.
Can’t say I’ve experienced this. According to American liberals I’ve talked with, communism is just about synonymous with fascism. No way I could mention that I’m a socialist, that’s like an insult towards liberals here. But I also live in Georgia where they ran ads about “radical socialist anti-israel anti-American Fidel Castro supporting communist Raphael Warnock” for the entire election, and that was supposed to scare us, so… maybe there’s the reason. Yes the ads were by the Heritage Foundation
For the most part yeah, that’s pretty spot on. This is just in comparison to conservative spaces in America, mind you.
But say on the campus of a liberal arts college? Its like an alternative anarchist.
flashback to my college days getting asked on surveys what my politics are on a scale of liberal to conservative
they’d always mark me as “independent” since their scale had nowhere to put communists
At this point, I honestly don’t know what “liberal” actually means. I don’t even know how to ask/find out. When I was growing up, I always thought it was good.
Now I don’t even know what “good” is, other than not being racist or anti-LGBTQ+.
I would counter relative to the other answer you got that liberalism is based on a leveling of the political rights of citizens while resisting a leveling of economic rights (despite some calls for it even at the time). Feudal governments absolutely were also based on the defense of the rights of their citizens and indeed even some classical slave societies, but the difference is that those societies had [more pronounced and varied] castes which each had different political rights.
Liberalism was a revolution led by merchants and other propertied people against the aristocracy, i.e. people with the greatest economic rights opposing those with the greatest political rights, leaving the former completely unchecked except sometimes by popular power.
Incidentally, and this explains some of the bickering in this thread, communists of all stripes are people who advocate that both political and economic rights are leveled, which manifests as the economy being controlled by popular mandate rather than private ownership.
Anyway, I’m mainly commenting to say if you have other political questions, you can usually get very thorough answers from c/askchapo
Hmm, interesting! I should probably actually check out the Chapo podcast. I have never heard it and folks here seem to be fond of it. I have heard some of the hosts on Cumtown, and they’re very funny.
A lot of people on hexbear hate chapo (despite that being where c/askchapo is, due to hexbear formerly being chapo.chat) but I think it’s alright. The most recent episode starts out with a very informative segment about sanctions.
Draw an equal triangle. One line is ‘public policy’, another ‘private interest’, and the last ‘state authority’. You can label the two endpoints of ‘state authority’ as ‘left’ and ‘right’. The third point is ‘liberal’ which lies in opposition to the political spectrum of state authority. Liberals tend to fixate on authoritarianism over whether it serves the public or private interest.
People rarely fall on the points or lines as all concepts are in perfect tension.
I’m still too stupid to fully understand but BOOOOOO AUTHORITARIANISM
You’re fine. Ability to pull political abstracts off Lemmy is not a sign of intelligence or lack thereof.
But anyway, unless you go full primitive anarchist most people generally want some level of authority: like laws, codes, contracts, etc.
Whether those things serve public policy vs private interests will generally split ‘left’ or ‘right’ respectively.
Linguistically, that’s usually how it is used in America (but not elsewhere), “liberal” means “left”