How about Lemmy.World?
The admins stated on Mastodon that they’re not going to defederate until something happens. Knowing Meta they shouldn’t give them the chance.
Here’s the link: https://mastodon.world/@mwadmin/110654590632768079
Thats unfortunate. I’ll be moving instances then. Giving Meta a chance is a lot like giving a mosquito a chance to not suck your blood.
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Currently you can with with Lemmy Connect. Maybe with others as well, given the amount of apps coming out by the day. And I’m guessing they’ll fold the feature into Lemmy/Kbin proper sometime in the future.
My (limited) understanding is that if you (we) block other instances locally, that won’t stop meta (or whoever) from accessing your (our) information and posts.
Right, there are limitations to app based user blocking of instances. Lemmy/Kbin proper would need to implement a robust user account privacy framework to provide the granular control you’re interested in. Personally, I’d like to see this as well.
Its like that story of the frog helping the scorpion cross the river.
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Same, I was only donating $2 a month but I’m not alone in finding this completely unacceptable. I applied at lemmy.ml. It’s the scorpion and the frog with these people suggesting we should just wait and see.
“~Let’s see if Zuck doesn’t act like an anti-competitive asshole this time” <–where the hell is the logic in that?!
Ikr? When being a competitive asshole is the core of your being, the windows should be closed before something even has a chance to happen.
How does one change instances?
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You don’t. Go to a different instance and sign up. Then stopping using this account.
How do you move? I signed up through .world but don’t want a chance of touching the poo (meta).
You just make a new account with another instance. You get about the same content as before.
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This behavior is why the fediverse alienate users and makes it hostile for new people to join.
They didn’t do anything, yet. Give them the chance but start with 2 strikes on their account already. They fuck up, THEN you defederate. Innocent until proven otherwise.
Edit: go on, downvote me. Show me your face. Show me how you’re all against growth on Lemmy and niceness to each other.
Innocent until proven otherwise.
There are many years of proof already about facebook/meta acting very maliciously, actively breaking laws and being fined for it, is that not proof enough? How many more do you need before you can say they’re not innocent at all?
Innocent until proven otherwise.
Corporations like Meta have shown time and time again that they cannot be trusted to play nice with anyone else. Have we already forgotten about Cambridge Analytica or the plethora of other scandals they’ve been at the center of? The proof has been in plain view for a while now.
They don’t get more data because they’re federated. They literally the exact same amount of data as they do know just by scraping mastodon or Lemmy. They’re an even player in this market. Somehow you all keep forgetting that. If you don’t want meta do have data from activity pub, you being here already violates that ideal.
Okay, but that doesn’t address any of the points I brought up.
You said to give Meta a chance. The rest of us are broadly gesturing at all the shit they’ve done in the past, and how we want as little to do with that as possible.
There is nothing they can do to fuck up your experience, ESPECIALLY on Lemmy though. Threads is a completely different concept from Lemmy and activity pub is well defined.
The only thing they could do is just not moderate threads and therefore putting spam in everyone’s feeds. That’s about it. I don’t think they’re leaving that unmoderated.
Innocent until proven otherwise is a concept for criminal court.
We aren’t putting someone in jail, we are looking at their past business practices and deciding not to do business with them based on their obvious habits.
If you disagree with me, we’ll then you’re just against niceness, admit you are! Admit you’re against niceness!
troll
Oh, looks like I’m switching instances.
And done. I love federation.
Same here, partner. Moved yesterday.
This is great. Then all the people complaining that lemmy.world is “too big” can now be appeased with others leaving lemmy.world. Glad to see the community solve each other’s problems organically! :)
How do you do that? I’m subscribed to like 50 conmunities. Would I have to start all over? That doesn’t sound like it’s worth it.
Just gonna name-drop the tool I made to do this :) https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
It’s only been out a few days, let me know if you have any issues!
Thanks. I liked .world but no way will I let meta in.
Thanks for making this!
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Awesome! I was hoping this would be possible. I plan to host my own instance hobbit.world and would need to migrate everything.
Also, I’ll defederate any corporate instances. No need to encourage bad actors.
If you’re creating an instance that will not federate with corporate instances, then I would love to join.
Thanks for this! Just gave this a try, downloaded from .world just fine, but uploading to .ml gives this error: ERROR: Failed Login - HTTP status client error (403 Forbidden) for url (https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/user/login)
That usually means wrong username/password! But if you’re sure, I can make an account on lemmy.ml and give it a shot.
Thanks for the feedback. The username and password are indeed correct. I copied and pasted from Bitwarden and used the exact same ones to login to the lemmy.ml site. I do wonder if there is some sort of anti-bot measures that Colonel Sanders mentioned below.
Also: I tried just my username vs email but neither worked and I also don’t have MFA enabled yet. Super weird.
EDIT: opened an issue on Github: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/issues/4
I’m not very tech savvy when it comes to this, but would it have anything to do with the anti-bot stuff that lemmy.ml has implemented in the sign-up process? You now have to answer a few questions and basically write your reason for making an account before it lets you even submit the request for review.
Thanks for this!
Legend
Honestly it isn’t. Nothing about the Fediverse is private or inherently secure in that way. Everything is public. And you should assume that everything you publish through activity pub could eventually be looked at by anyone. If you want private or secure messaging there are non-activity pub open source secure alternate. In fact signing up for Lemmy there’s even a field to enter for one. Whether or not a server federates with meta. Meta is still going to data mine the ever-loving shit out of all of them. The point is. None of us are at Meta’s wim about being flooded with their toxic content.
Honestly I want to see meta flooded with our content. So much anti-threads anti Meta sentiment. Actual leftists. And not just make believe right-wing liberals who’ve been conditioned to think that they are left. It would be hilarious to watch Meta try to play wack-a-mole sanitizing everything. To please their reptilian corporate overlords. And if you don’t care and just don’t want to see it. You can always block them personally. Why let them data mine in peace. I say we make them work for it.
I’m not real sure how much the Threads Algorithm is going to pass through Mastodon content (and even less sure if it will even be able to pass through Lemmy content). I think the much more valuable aspect is you can pitch your Threads friends that they can move to the Fediverse and actually get to choose what content they see rather than which influencers paid Meta to fill up your feed.
Agreed about influencers. Meta wouldn’t be doing this at all if they didn’t have a plan (or multiple plans) to monetize it. The whole reason I left Reddit and plan to leave Twitter was that I very much dislike having any part of my online enjoyment at the mercy of the whims of gigantic corporate assholes that think they are far more important than they are. Meta has been an awful and abusive actor in the tech world, why would any freedom-loving person want anything to do with them in a freedom-loving space?! Why would anyone just wait and see what they do this time to decide they’re an awful company with only their profits in mind and no qualms about making those profits at a cost to its users?!
I’ve seen a rationale that makes sense for why they’re making Threads implement ActivityPub. https://lemmy.world/post/1105955
Oh they are going to fight it either way no doubt. But why make it easy on them I say. And you’re right. If we have access to their content and can provide actual linear feeds like people want with no toxic algorithms. It’s win-win for us and still mostly a loss for them. Even if we defiederate with them they’re still going to data mine we just cut ourself off from reaching those people preemptively.
It’s not really about privacy, though. It’s about the risk of Meta going “Embrace, extend, extinguish” on the fediverse, and the only way to protect against that is by not letting them interact with the majority of it from the get-go. https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
People keep saying that. Like it’s something that actually happens. And let’s be clear, it has happened with a number of commercial products. But Microsoft and others have never managed to EEE email, HTTP/HTTPS, Usenet, Linux, Java even. And they’ve tried haaaaaaaaaard. Google didn’t EEE XMPP either. It still exists. I use it daily. The author is misrepresenting what happened.
What happened is that too many people felt obligated to work with corporation that had little interest in working with them. Rather than to focus on their own system and continue to update or develop it. Neglecting their core user base, chasing after people who didn’t seek it out and didn’t care what they were using so long as it worked. They wasted time and effort. But Google didn’t actually kill anything. And all the people using Google talk typically weren’t interested about XMPP in the first place and never would be.
It goes beyond that even. Lemmy is developed by socialists. And not just the more reasonable bunch of socialists like myself. But straight up militant leninists. They’re part of the core development team if not the whole thing. And they have no interest in catering to or coddling misbehaving corporations. They are going to do what they want and what they feel they need to do when they need to do it. And if meta or anyone else tries to screw it up. They’re not going to pay one single bit of attention to them and just keep on doing what they’ve been doing
I would add to this that its not just the fediverse, anything you put on the internet should be assumed to be public and non-deletable. Even with GDPR and everything, if the host deletes everything there could dtill be backups, archives, or some random person, corporation, or government could backup everything. Use secure services like signal for things you want to be private and just assume everything else could be public forever.
100%
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There is a python script floating around that will sync your communities, etc. I’d link but don’t have it handy.
I don’t code.
Here is the script. It’s already written, you just need to run it:
Alternatively, there is a browser bookmark that kinda does the same thing: https://feddit.de/post/808717
you can find all sorts of things to customize lemmy over at !plugins@sh.itjust.works or https://sh.itjust.works/c/plugins (shameless plug)
💀
Yep.
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People think I’m exaggerating when I say Meta is evil, but this is one of the stories that jumps to mind. Awful company.
“until something happens”
I suppose Metas history of actively being a bad actor working against societies best interests and enabling hate groups doesn’t qualify as ‘something’…
yeah that this point meta just existing is bad
You didn’t say anything of substance.
They had more substance than your comment.
Yours is of less substance than areogel.
Oh damn guess I will migrate to lemmy.ml and use that until I find out if lemmy.world defederates or not. (Edit turns out it is run by tankies and they are federated with lemmygrad.) While I may or may not stay on lemmy.world depending on if we federate with meta or not. I will no longer suggest Lemmy.ml.
I’m not in a hurry to migrate, as Threads doesn’t support federation yet, but is not a bad idea to keep an eye on other instances.
Is mastodon.world the same as lemmy.world?
The admin is the same person, so is expected that they apply the same policy for both instances.
Bloody hell, I literally just switched to Lemmy.world, do I really need to switch to Lemmy.ml? Come on guys
I switched to lemm.ee
They’re still federated with exploding-heads and rammy.site so they didn’t make my short list
What a shame guess I’ll stick to my alt over at lemm.ee for the time being
Tolerance paradox applies here too
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
Thank you and the other admins for the thoughtful and transparent answer.
We would like to express our disappointment with the negative and threatening tone of some of these discussions
Considering that a great percentage of the Fediverse userbase are ex-users of Reddit and Twitter that left due to CEO actions, I get that they (including me) don’t trust Meta or want anything to do with them. I agree that discussion should be civil nonetheless.
until something happens
What exact behaviors are they looking for that would cause them to push the block button?
Threads can do very well for themselves without the fediverse as they are already demonstrating. What real motive do they have to join the fediverse except to shut it down?
Heck yeah. That’s a very balanced and rational approach completely unfuelled by emotions.
Can’t say the same for the top comment in this thread, lol.
Facebook doesn’t give a shit about its users and treats them and their data as a crop to harvest. On Meta platforms, you’re the product. On the fediverse, you’re just another user, free to do what you want. Disgust is indeed an emotion, and I’m 100% fine with being disgusted with Meta.
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Is it more rational than only federating once they’ve proven that it’ll be fine? (instead of waiting for them to prove they’re not)
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So far on Lemmy I had never looked for the option to block a single user. You have changed that.
I agree with you!
Oh look, this place is just like Reddit with the rational talk buried in the comments. Thank you for being here despite the apparently unpopular opinion we share.
Be a lot cooler if they did.
Alright
Alright
Alright
I want to be on an instance that defederates, I will move if world does not do it.
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Lemmygrad is where the real comrades are at
The discussion is still on-going.
What is there to discuss?
Fair enough!
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The problem with Meta is that they will harm the Fediverse.
I found this article interesting, written by a dev who worked with google during the XMPP EEE and was originally a XMPP dev, thinking that a big company could only mean more success for the FOSS alternative. He was wrong.
It’s almost like some people crave enshitification.
“Hey this decentralized stuff is really cool, let’s connect with the most gigantic corporate assholes who would absolutely centralize all of it if they could…you know, so we can grow! What could go wrong?”
LIke…what?
I wish even one person could give the actual steps on how Facebook is going to ruin the fediverse instead of just spamming this same one article and throwing around the same buzzwords like XMPP, EEE etc. of which nobody had heard about a week ago.
There’s so many people here right now reading this thinking that defederating is going to prevent Facebook from seeing the content you post here and collecting the little data that’s available to them. It doesn’t. That’s not what defederating does.
It’s not about the data they can collect. As long as we don’t use the Meta app or register in their instance we’re on the clear. The problem is giving them power.
I’m not an evil
geniusshithead like Zuck, but it could go this way:- They enter the Fediverse as the biggest instance.
- They artificially slow down connections with other instances. That way, lots of users from smaller intances will migrate to the Meta one. Only the ones concerned about our privacy will remain in independent instances.
- Once most of the userbase of the Fediverse is on their instance, they keep slowing it, or adding “features” only available in their app, effectively building a wall between them and the rest of instances.
- Finally they defederate, leaving the rest of the fediverse weaker than it was.
.
There are some key thoughts in this article.
“ I’m not an evil genius like Zuck”
You give this ass bag too much credit. He’s a rich boy from rich parents. He stole Facebook from real thinkers and passed it off as his own.
He may be evil but he’s far from a genius. He’s as much of a genius as Elon is. Only thing Elon and Zuck are good at is fooling people they are smart.
I can totally see that.
Yeah I really hope they come out with the user’s ability to block instances soon. Would be a great feature addition. There are a couple of instances that I take no issue with and don’t want others to be blocked access too, but I really just don’t want to see them in my feed.
If you use Lemmy Connect, they added the option to block instances like yesterday.
Wait, an app can do this? I thought the devs of Lemmy itself needed to add the feature. I didn’t think that was possible app-side without adding the feature to Lemmy.
How do you block an entire instance in their app?
Edit: Found it! This is interesting. I didn’t know it was possible. Finally I can get the porn off my front page without getting rid of NSFW memes. Thanks!
Edit 2: Weirdly, Connect does not seem to show my newly subscribed communities in my subscriptions even though the other apps do. What a strange bug. Hmm…I think I’ll hold off on using it until things like that work better for me.
I think I saw someone else mentioned that bug as well. I think your subscription list in the main menu doesn’t automatically refresh after you subscribe to a new community so currently you would have to close and reopen the app. Updates and bug fixes have been daily lately so hopefully that gets fixed soon.
If you as user block an instance that doesn’t really solve the problem, Threads is still federated and getting your stuff, it’s just hidden from you
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Is there any reason that they wouldn’t?
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.
When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).
Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.
Lemmy.world needs to follow
Fantastic news! Can we please do the same on lemmy.world? Please?
It would be even greater if lemmy.world does it ;)
lemmy.world and everyone should as well
Looking forward to Lemmy.world pushing the block button when it comes to it…
Hard agree.
I don’t really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn’t affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media–and for that matter, all social media–without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it’s like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck’s sake, it doesn’t think its users should control what they see on their own feed.
I am perfectly willing–even eager–to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I’m bored and applaud others doing the same; it’s fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.
Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not ‘they do not align with our values’ because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I’m tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can’t even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook’s algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it’s a danger to Fediverse shouldn’t even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone’s minds is ‘wait, this is actually a serious question?’ and have been answered ‘lol of course it’s a joke, I just forgot to add the /s’.
I’m still waiting for that /s.
It’s not about Zuckerberg, it’s about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it’s impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.
With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it’s only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.
What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.
This isn’t inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.
Ideologically, de-federating an instance just because you don’t like the guy running it would be a bad thing, but Facebook/Meta has been just so toxic to the internet as a whole it’s hard to really find fault with it.
Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it’s obvious he’s going to do the same thing with Threads?
His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.
He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we’re trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?
e
Bravo lemmy.ml! We should follow the example!
I’m actually shocked by the growth of threads, I underestimated how much people don’t care about their digital privacy.
You are using a social network on some random dude’s server.
That is very true, but I have a little more trust in this random dude’s server where he gets access to what? He sees my IP address? Than a corp that collects an unnecessary amount of user info for the sole purpose of keeping you locked into their apps with little disregard for health. While also pimping your info out to any persons with $2 to their name.
Any random person is at least a hundred times more ethical than mark Zuckerberg.
You overestimate the ethics of random human beings.
Atleast zuck is beholden to pretend to be ethical.
Yeah I wouldn’t take on hosting a public instance, especially in EU, as it comes with all sorts of legal shite
tbf, that’s every social network isn’t it?
Those are existing Instagram accounts.
Which is why we should federate. People have the choice to use a low availability “private” server hosted by amateurs on lemmy or use something secure and distributed that works 100%.
A little warning: the site owners on lemmy could be doing many malicious things. The simplest is the ability to drop trackers in the sites header section. However they could have dns based trackers that are invisible to end users. And thats just tracking so far. The only reason we know facebook is a slime bag is years and years of leaks.
Bro. It’s a public forum. What ‘digital privacy’ are you talking about?
This digital privacy.
Threads for iOS
Liftoff for Lemmy
People don’t understand what they’re doing literally signing away their data and accepting these Terms of Service.
These people are already on instagram. Now they’re just giving their data to Facebook twice.
What are you talking about? If users are okay with giving up that information then that’s their choice.
Stop being patronizing and condescending just because people don’t care about the things you do. It’s very childish.
You’re obviously arguing in bad faith, using ad hominen on everyone with a dissenting view, spamming the hypocritical accusation of others making hollow statements, and you’re also hypocritically emotionally charged in your arguments. You’re either trolling or extremely self-deluded.
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I am calm. Classic baseless claim. Just because you are reacting emotionally to what I’ve written, it does not mean I was emotional when typing it.
I don’t feed trolls. Get a life.
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