You’ve probably made the most clear and concise argument against my stance (which I don’t claim is unique, just for the record).
I agree that Russia isn’t an imperialist nation. I was careful to not characterize them as such, and you’re correct to bring up the fact that the US is. This is actually why I place most of the blame on the US for the current state of things, of course the EU countries are not innocent, although they basically just march to the tune the US sets.
I’m open to being wrong about all of this, but I think the ultimate judgement won’t come for a long time. Maybe not in my lifetime even. I know one thing I’m absolutely not wrong about though, which everyone here agrees on I hope, the US/NATO need to totally get the fuck out of Russia and its neighboring countries. If this war does result in the US long term abandoning Ukraine and efforts there to stoke Nazism and general right wing nationalism/anti-Russian/Soviet sentiments, then I suppose I’ll have to accept that the end result is good even if I disagree with motivations and methods.
Personally I think there already is overwhelming amount of indisputable evidence to back up a judgement that not only is Russia wholly justified in this conflict, but acting with such an extreme level of patience and diligence to the rules of war that they should even be commended (not too much though- Putin’s, and the Russian state’s liberal, comprador roots and their resulting hopes for peace and acceptance into the imperialist bloc are why it took so long for Russia to wake up to and act decisively against this threat)- even as the west and Ukraine continue terrorizing civilians in eastern Ukraine and former Ukraine, and engaging in acts of terrorism against Russian civilians within the internationally recognized territories of Russia as well.
As in- seriously, aside from that Putin waited too long (as he himself has publicly admitted- he was naive)- amazingly I can’t think of a single thing to condemn otherwise, in regards to their handling of this war. The stark difference between Ukraine and any of the US/NATO’s wars and interventions over even just the past decade is clear for anyone to see, as is the clear threat- not just to Putin, or to the rest of the domestic bourgeois of Russia, but to the entire Russian nation and (multiethnic) people, which necessitated such a intervention.
You’ve probably made the most clear and concise argument against my stance (which I don’t claim is unique, just for the record).
I agree that Russia isn’t an imperialist nation. I was careful to not characterize them as such, and you’re correct to bring up the fact that the US is. This is actually why I place most of the blame on the US for the current state of things, of course the EU countries are not innocent, although they basically just march to the tune the US sets.
I’m open to being wrong about all of this, but I think the ultimate judgement won’t come for a long time. Maybe not in my lifetime even. I know one thing I’m absolutely not wrong about though, which everyone here agrees on I hope, the US/NATO need to totally get the fuck out of Russia and its neighboring countries. If this war does result in the US long term abandoning Ukraine and efforts there to stoke Nazism and general right wing nationalism/anti-Russian/Soviet sentiments, then I suppose I’ll have to accept that the end result is good even if I disagree with motivations and methods.
Personally I think there already is overwhelming amount of indisputable evidence to back up a judgement that not only is Russia wholly justified in this conflict, but acting with such an extreme level of patience and diligence to the rules of war that they should even be commended (not too much though- Putin’s, and the Russian state’s liberal, comprador roots and their resulting hopes for peace and acceptance into the imperialist bloc are why it took so long for Russia to wake up to and act decisively against this threat)- even as the west and Ukraine continue terrorizing civilians in eastern Ukraine and former Ukraine, and engaging in acts of terrorism against Russian civilians within the internationally recognized territories of Russia as well.
As in- seriously, aside from that Putin waited too long (as he himself has publicly admitted- he was naive)- amazingly I can’t think of a single thing to condemn otherwise, in regards to their handling of this war. The stark difference between Ukraine and any of the US/NATO’s wars and interventions over even just the past decade is clear for anyone to see, as is the clear threat- not just to Putin, or to the rest of the domestic bourgeois of Russia, but to the entire Russian nation and (multiethnic) people, which necessitated such a intervention.