Reductio ad absurdum: Felony conviction for child molestation. Removed from record. Should they have free reign to be able to apply for any job, even if it might involve children?
You are talking about the conviction, I am talking about the punishment. We the people of this country decide what the punishments are for crimes.
So in the case of a murder conviction it maybe decided that this person has to be incarcerated for 20 years. They do their time and released. They did the punishment We decided as appropriate for the crime. They are done.
In your example again We the people get to decide the punishment. It could be (and probably is) part of the punishment that a convicted child molester can never have a job working with people under a certain age. Maybe in this case the punishment can never fully be carried out so they always carry the moniker of felon/child molester.
All I’m saying is that for those crimes that have a definitive start and end point for the punishment there should be a qualifying start and end point for the title of felon.
I find your distinction to be arbitrary. You could argue that punishment for child sex abuse should have a beginning and an end, or you can argue that the punishment for a felony conviction does not end when you get out of prison.
I work in finance, and I certainly would not want to bring on someone who was convicted of felony security fraud working for the firm, because it ours everything in jeopardy.
I’m not arguing how we punish people I’m arguing why do we punish people What’s the point of putting a person in jail or prison for some length of time if, when the get out they are still saddled with their crime?
So I go back to my question…does a convicted child molester finish their jail sentence and the can go and work around children? Or do we also accept that maybe, even after the person has finished their sentence, that the “punishment” continues to protect society?
If the latter, then the question becomes when this is appropriate, and not if it is ever appropriate.
Yes. Go back to my previous post I mention that in some cases maybe the punishment never ends due to the crime committed. But not all crimes deserve life long punishment. But I’m not arguing sentencing guidelines really, What I want to know is if someone is convicted of a felony, completes the punishment given to them, should they still be called a felon?
So the current position is that felony convictions stay on your record forever and individuals can decide whether or not to do business with these people.
You’re saying that the current system is bad…but only for some crimes.
I’m pointing out that your argument as to why is arbitrary… Just “what we decide” as a society, and the current decision is that felonies, no matter what, stick around.
Yes. Why wouldn’t they? By the same logic, people who killed somebody shouldn’t be allowed to interact with people, and arsonists shouldn’t be allowed in buildings.
Reductio ad absurdum: Felony conviction for child molestation. Removed from record. Should they have free reign to be able to apply for any job, even if it might involve children?
You are talking about the conviction, I am talking about the punishment. We the people of this country decide what the punishments are for crimes.
So in the case of a murder conviction it maybe decided that this person has to be incarcerated for 20 years. They do their time and released. They did the punishment We decided as appropriate for the crime. They are done.
In your example again We the people get to decide the punishment. It could be (and probably is) part of the punishment that a convicted child molester can never have a job working with people under a certain age. Maybe in this case the punishment can never fully be carried out so they always carry the moniker of felon/child molester.
All I’m saying is that for those crimes that have a definitive start and end point for the punishment there should be a qualifying start and end point for the title of felon.
I find your distinction to be arbitrary. You could argue that punishment for child sex abuse should have a beginning and an end, or you can argue that the punishment for a felony conviction does not end when you get out of prison.
I work in finance, and I certainly would not want to bring on someone who was convicted of felony security fraud working for the firm, because it ours everything in jeopardy.
I’m not arguing how we punish people I’m arguing why do we punish people What’s the point of putting a person in jail or prison for some length of time if, when the get out they are still saddled with their crime?
So I go back to my question…does a convicted child molester finish their jail sentence and the can go and work around children? Or do we also accept that maybe, even after the person has finished their sentence, that the “punishment” continues to protect society?
If the latter, then the question becomes when this is appropriate, and not if it is ever appropriate.
Yes. Go back to my previous post I mention that in some cases maybe the punishment never ends due to the crime committed. But not all crimes deserve life long punishment. But I’m not arguing sentencing guidelines really, What I want to know is if someone is convicted of a felony, completes the punishment given to them, should they still be called a felon?
So the current position is that felony convictions stay on your record forever and individuals can decide whether or not to do business with these people.
You’re saying that the current system is bad…but only for some crimes.
I’m pointing out that your argument as to why is arbitrary… Just “what we decide” as a society, and the current decision is that felonies, no matter what, stick around.
Yes. Why wouldn’t they? By the same logic, people who killed somebody shouldn’t be allowed to interact with people, and arsonists shouldn’t be allowed in buildings.