Recognizing israel is absolutely irrelevant to anti-semitism.
Many people in this thread don’t seem to know this, but within German neo-Nazi movements that’s absolutely wrong. Revoking Israel’s right to exist is the number one talking point of the people doing hitler salutes again.
Following Hamas’ October 7th attacks, Alexander Gauland (speaking as the honorary AfD chairman) said “The attack was not only aimed at the Jewish state, it was also aimed at us. Israel is the West in an environment that rejects and fights the West. When we stand with Israel, we are also defending our way of life”. This idea of ‘defending a way of life’ is common anti-immigrant rhetoric, and one the AfD frequently utilises to criticise immigration policy in Germany.
Where does criticism of the Israeli government end and where does anti-Semitism begin?
Criticism of Israeli government policy is not anti-Semitic per se and we Germans can also criticize it - just as Israelis themselves do. The settlement policy in the West Bank, for example, violates international law. It is absolutely possible to criticize this without being accused of anti-Semitism. Criticism becomes anti-Semitic when Israel’s right to exist is called into question. Or when Israeli actions are compared to the atrocities committed by the Nazis.
Do you have an example?
Criticism of Israeli government action is absolutely legitimate. Anyone who criticizes the settlement policy that violates international law or the course of the protective wall between the West Bank and Israel is not anti-Semitic. But anyone who denies the state of Israel the right to exist and lets loose a slogan like “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is making an anti-Semitic statement. When Israeli government actions are equated with Nazi crimes and, for example, the Gaza Strip is described as a large concentration camp, then this is also anti-Semitic because it relativizes Nazi crimes and reverses perpetrators and victims.
Criticism of Israeli government policy is not anti-Semitic per se and we Germans can also criticize it
But anyone who denies the state of Israel the right to exist and lets loose a slogan like “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is making an anti-Semitic statement.
Explain what is anti-semitic about saying Nazi white nationalist Apartheid terrorist state israel has no right to exist.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, by the way.
Because it’s usually not said about other nations committing crimes against international law. Iran is allowed to exist. Russia is allowed to exist. North Korea is allowed to exist. Heck, Nazi Germany was allowed to exist.
The right to exist as a nation is such a fundamental idea to international law that I have to wonder how you would argue otherwise without stepping into genocidal territory.
And it is a bad look, to be completely honest, that of all nations is just so happens to be Israel to be the one country where people have continuously called for their destruction.
Israels current actions must be condemned, no debate there. And the German government should be louder in their criticism (although I can see why they of all governments have the hardest time doing so). But Israels right to exist has nothing, zero, to do with that.
This is a false comparison between countries and colonized land.
Nazi Germany was absolutely not allowed to exist. This is Nazi Germany:
Note how after Hitler got defeated we did not say “well Germany stole that land fair and square”.
Israel is like Apartheid South Africa. A colonial Apartheid state on other people’s land.
It should be no surprise that israel does not have a right to exist as it suppresses the native Palestinian population to create a white ethnostate. Just like the Apartheid in South Africa, israel should be abolished.
I’m not saying Israel should keep occupied land. At all. You’re saying we should abolish the state entirely. Sorry, that’s borderline genocidal. And not what happened to Nazi Germany either - it was occupied and then basically newly founded. What you imagine for Israel would be closer to a solution where the occupying forces in Germany after 1945, or maybe the surrounding countries, took their share of German territory for good. We wouldn’t have a Germany today if that would have been the decision made back then.
And we wouldn’t have Iran, Russia, North Korea, and a whole bunch of other nations with humanitarian violations either, even though you conveniently skipped that point.
Many people in this thread don’t seem to know this, but within German neo-Nazi movements that’s absolutely wrong. Revoking Israel’s right to exist is the number one talking point of the people doing hitler salutes again.
That’s completely false.
The AfD obviously doesn’t say the quiet part out loud, they’re already on the brink of proceedings to be banned. I’m talking about actual skinheads.
I know what the AfD is. It symbolizes the situation perfectly. The biggest actual anti-semites are supporters of israel.
Because israel has nothing to do with Judaism. Israel is just classic white nationalism creating Lebensraum in the Middle East.
Sorry, but thats just not true. Read for example what the anti-semitism commissioner in Germany says about it: (translated from German obv)
Explain what is anti-semitic about saying Nazi white nationalist Apartheid terrorist state israel has no right to exist.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, by the way.
Because it’s usually not said about other nations committing crimes against international law. Iran is allowed to exist. Russia is allowed to exist. North Korea is allowed to exist. Heck, Nazi Germany was allowed to exist.
The right to exist as a nation is such a fundamental idea to international law that I have to wonder how you would argue otherwise without stepping into genocidal territory.
And it is a bad look, to be completely honest, that of all nations is just so happens to be Israel to be the one country where people have continuously called for their destruction.
Israels current actions must be condemned, no debate there. And the German government should be louder in their criticism (although I can see why they of all governments have the hardest time doing so). But Israels right to exist has nothing, zero, to do with that.
This is a false comparison between countries and colonized land.
Nazi Germany was absolutely not allowed to exist. This is Nazi Germany:
Note how after Hitler got defeated we did not say “well Germany stole that land fair and square”.
Israel is like Apartheid South Africa. A colonial Apartheid state on other people’s land.
It should be no surprise that israel does not have a right to exist as it suppresses the native Palestinian population to create a white ethnostate. Just like the Apartheid in South Africa, israel should be abolished.
I’m not saying Israel should keep occupied land. At all. You’re saying we should abolish the state entirely. Sorry, that’s borderline genocidal. And not what happened to Nazi Germany either - it was occupied and then basically newly founded. What you imagine for Israel would be closer to a solution where the occupying forces in Germany after 1945, or maybe the surrounding countries, took their share of German territory for good. We wouldn’t have a Germany today if that would have been the decision made back then.
And we wouldn’t have Iran, Russia, North Korea, and a whole bunch of other nations with humanitarian violations either, even though you conveniently skipped that point.