In 2016, the blue team won by 3 million votes and still lost the election. The system is broken. I’ll still vote blue, but I don’t think it will matter, especially since I’m not in a swing state.
Matters for your more local elections. Those swing states still send a lot of republicans to Congress every election. And control of Congress is pretty damn important.
More important than who’s president.
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Turning 35 this September. Only 1 Republican has won the popular vote since I was born.
Well yeah, that’s why they love the EC (and idea of land >>> people)
They don’t care.
Sure they will tell people that democracy will end if Trump is reelected but actually trying to fix the voting system is too hard.
Not that there has been any movement to do something about it. Just vote Democrat™.
The electoral college, first past the post and gerrymandering basically make the American electoral system a joke
DNC and DNC shills expecting free votes because they’re democratically funding a genocide instead of fascistly funding a genocide
You morons in November when Trump inevitably wins due to horrendous voter turnout in November from former Democrat voters and not because the 5 communists in the USA made the difference
It’s like a copy paste of Trump v Clinton and clearly no one learned their lesson from literally 8 years ago.
“I would fight fascism to my last breath” “I would be part of the resistance movement if a fascist government took power”
proceeds to do none of the un-sexy things needed to prevent fascism from taking hold in the first place
And then they ask “wHy dO tHe dEms mOvE tO tHe CenTrE wHeN tHeY lOsE i dOn’T uNdErsTanD”.
I think that’s been a proven case for European parliamentary democracies giving way to right wing and fascist parties. But that’s more the reverse: the liberal and center-left move center and then lose.
But US politics doesn’t have much leftist policy to shed, or many leftist politicians to exoricate, so it is more that even when Democrats win, policy stays right of center. Which is where the frustrated remark “both parties are the same” comes from, which everyone also shits on.
Since you know, the centre right continually stretches further right like a rubber band.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing. Want it to move left? Give Dems overwhelming and consistent wins and they can listen to the more left part of their party and move left.
If this were a parliamentary system, sure. But our constitutional framework does not produce overwhelming, consistent victory. Like, ever, in its history.
May I remind you after the Bush administration, Obama won both the primaries and the overall election by campaigning from the left, not the center. And he won by a very wide margin.
Presidentially: yeah.
Congressionally and locally: not nearly as much. There’s a pretty solid track record especially since the Citizens United and SpeechNow decisions of the Democratic Party either mobilizing against progressives and for conservatives in primaries where there isn’t even a GOP threat.
They even took down Katie Porter because she didn’t kiss the ring of Dianne Feinstein.
But yeah, the acute threat the GOP poses gives them harm reduction status.
President and Congress. Probably locally too but federally is what I’m focusing on.
And this isn’t strictly harm reduction. Like I said, want it to move left? That will happen with overwhelming and consistent wins.
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The DNC funded Schiff hard and even funded the GOP candidate for attack ads against her. I mean you’re objectively correct: she lost. But she was fighting two parties by the time the primary happened.
She announced her intent to run too early back when effort was still being made to “Weekend At Bernies” Feinstein, which waa her undoing.
Dems can’t move as far left as you want them to when there’s a very real chance of losing.
At least, not when there’s a very real chance of losing to the right.
It’d be different if the Republican Party was out there hawking Marx instead of Mises.
SURELY the DNC will listen if they don’t vote, don’t run, and don’t donate, but post a genocide Joe meme from their phone also made available by genocide while wearing clothes manufactured by a genocidal state on land acquired from an ethnic cleansing. That’s the morally upstanding thing to do.
Well they didn’t listen when we did vote so fuck em. And no, participating in Capitalism is not an endorsement of capitalism. Never was, never will be, because participation is enforced.
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I helped run the phone lines for Biden in 2020. And what did I get? I got shit on. I got to watch my country participate in a fucking genocide. You don’t get to support that and then claim it’s some radical minority that’s the problem. The majority of non republicans want him to at least condition aid if not stop it all together at this point. All he has to do is follow the already written laws he’s been ignoring.
Then these fucks disappear after the election is over. If you don’t like how the last election went stick around and actually effect change BEFORE everything is on the line.
Intentional misinterpretation.
Democrats spend more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans, because their platforms are 95% the same. You don’t get to insult half your base, tell them their priorities are bullshit baby dreams, move further right from your already mid right position, then blame those people for your loss.
By telling leftists to eat shit, you’re saying you don’t need leftists to win. If leftists are the single cause behind every dem loss then its probably time to change your platform to cater to leftists (or just admit that you’re fascists that’ll take the red fascism instead of the blue fascism before you shift left even a little bit.)
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They’ve been backing a genocide and demonizing the university protests. That’s very real, physical things that are on the right the Democrats are doing.
I think the important takeaway here is that you may hammer R’s all you want, but if you want to rely on the left electorate, you have to serve the left electorate.
So the fight really is between “let’s at least hold blatant fascism” and “let’s tech Dems to listen a bit so that on their next election they would actually cater to the left instead of being lesser evil”.
Because right now Dems are just that - lesser evil that doesn’t care to align with the leftists.
I have no balls in this game, I’m not even a US citizen, but I see the point they’re trying to make.
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Keep cheerleading for fascism, buddy. :)
Your entire argument and political stance IS ALREADY FASCIST, buddy. :)
It’s entirely the Democratic Party’s fault if Trump wins another term. But their online cheerleaders are so keen to blame Communists who are such a miniscule percentage of the voting population. Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don’t turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
The sole “Trump will be worse” pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic, and not an election winning strategy. Even your own party leadership knows it. The disconnect between the actual party and it’s online supporters is huge.
I can’t believe France wom that election
If anyone actually wants to stop the genocide in Gaza please vote out your republican congressman, almost every Republican congressman supported the resolution to restart weapons shipments and almost every democrat voted against it.
I wonder what their idea of the outcome is.
Tankie: “I convinced 20 Democratic Party voters to stay at home (and did the same for 0 Republican Party voters). Wait until Democratic politicians see that more voters favored the far right party. Then they’re going to move left and fall on their knees and beg me to forgive them.”
(Cue scene: swastika-adorned tanks rolling past the window)
“Stupid liberals, unwilling to fight the fascists like us true leftists.” (Watches tanks and twiddles thumbs.) (Fetches keyboard.) “Let’s tell everyone online that it’s their own fault and they deserve this.” (Sudden sound of harsh knocking on front door.)
At best, their actions will “only” cause another grid-locked presidency where progressives can’t get their reforms to pass (which will then be used as the reason to abandon the likely last line of non-violent defense against fascists).
Oh wow now they’re Trump supporters and Communists? LMAO
This is getting ridiculous.
They are not team blue so they are team bad. The rules of
footballpolitics are simpleTeam blue is team bad. It’s just that team red is even worse.
But if we always follow this logic, we may as well allow them both to enshittify eternally, because reps will be just a bit more evil, and dems won’t have the incentive to improve, either.
The question is: at which point should Dems be taught a lesson and how? Is current voting a good avenue for that?
The best time to plant a tree was yesterday. The next best time is today. As you point out, this doesn’t get better if we keep doing the same thing. So now is the time.
You’re absolutely right, it IS ridiculous how many supposedly left-leaning people are willing and even eager to see a Trump presidency to ‘get one over on the shitlibs’.
The convention could always select a different democrat. Or it could have if the democrats hadn’t purposely put it after the ballot deadline in many states so Biden would already be on the ballot, before the convention that supposedly nominates him.
It’s just not the either/or situation you’re looking for. It’s entirely possible to be so disgusted by the state of American politics that you just don’t vote. Or you vote third party. Your memes are having a negative impact at this point. Nobody who was on the fence is going to say, “Oh gosh I don’t want to be commie, I better vote Joe!”
The convention could always select a different democrat.
Ah, yes, the good old shift from “NOT DEMOCRATIC ENOUGH” to “Fuck the voters, the DNC should nominate someone else!”
Your memes are having a negative impact at this point.
Then you should have no problem with them, since you’re convinced that neither side is worth supporting.
There is a side that could be worth supporting. But you’re making very hard to do so. Biden could win the election today by cutting off military aid to Israel. Instead he has goons out here threatening everyone. So far I’m not sure what I get for supporting him. You guys talk about plan 2025, but this kind of bullshit used to just be Republican stuff. So from where I’m sitting it looks like the DNC is giving up on Democracy too. It’s certainly giving up on listening to it’s voters.
Biden could win the election today by cutting off military aid to Israel.
God, I love how detached from the reality of the American electorate this constantly repeated point is.
Instead he has goons out here threatening everyone. So far I’m not sure what I get for supporting him.
Threatening… everyone… by telling them exactly what the opposition is promising to do?
God. What a horrible threat.
You guys talk about plan 2025, but this kind of bullshit used to just be Republican stuff.
Fucking what.
So from where I’m sitting it looks like the DNC is giving up on Democracy too.
… because it… isn’t having a meeting in a smoke-filled room to remove the current candidate without any input from the electorate?
Or because it’s running against a fascist who has pledged to be a day-one dictator?
That’s a coherent paragraph. Each sentence is meant to support and provide context for the others. So taking it all out of context isn’t helpful in decoding it’s meaning.
“It’s out of context, I didn’t say the things I said”
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They want Donald to win so that China gains ground. They claim to love leftist economies but are simping for countries that produce plenty of billionaires.
The trade war with China might be a way to assert US dominance and squash the competition, but in the grand scheme of things, protectionist policies are very bad for the global economy and global progress.
And leftists typically are internationalists, putting global efforts above national ones.
So it’s not just love for China, even if Lemmygrad and Hexbear folks are really unhealthily obsessed with the country.
It’s not about the trade war, they specifically want the US to be destabilized with the corruption and unqualified nepotism/crony appointments.
Billionaires are just symptomatic of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics!
The biggest joke here is that US voters will ever be able to directly vote for the President
So how is the whole “blame-leftists-for-the-abysmal-failure-of-our-fake-democracy” gaslighting project going?
It seems a bit laggy.
OP does not know what a tankie is.
An authoritarian self-proclaimed ‘leftist’ who loudly decries anything that’s not 100% in-line with their desires as ‘shitlib’ policy that must be opposed even at the cost of ushering in actual fascism. This actual fascism is also often described by tankies as ‘not that bad’ or ‘the exact same’ as the ‘shitlib’ policies they oppose. Dissenters are inevitably reactionaries who must be (often literally) crushed, as they don’t reflect the TRUE will of the people (ie whatever the opinion of the tankie is).
Wow… no notes
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As opposed to the liberals who decry anything to their left as tanky?
Thanks for not disagreeing with the description, it’s nice to know that others can see it too.
Oh look over there, a mile to your left! It’s the point you missed.
Which is, today, anything remotely left or even centrist*
The issue here is that Dems also go to the fascist state, they just always do it a bit slower to still be selected because “at least they are not THAT bad”.
The question is, at what point should they learn a lesson to revise their playbooks and stop the corruption and enshittification? What should that lesson be? Could voting them out push them to pursue a more fair policy that actually caters to the needs of the people?
loudly decries anything that’s not 100% in-line with their desires as ‘shitlib’ policy that must be opposed even at the cost of ushering in actual fascism
Wrong. They love and support Russia, China and N-Korea for some weird reason
Those countries are 100% in-line with their desires, though.
Yeah but I think the other comment made it sound like tankies actually had desires apart from whatever Papa Putin tell him to do. They don’t.
PJ just likes to start shit so they can argue with people.
Spent all day on this thread insulting people and trying to be a smartass. As if that is going to change anyone’s mind. What an absolute tool.
I’m so glad that I live outside the US. Not that we have good options but at least more than 2. I guess I would still vote for Biden but I wouldn’t call it a democracy
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Ah the daily fascism discourse multiplier thread. There’s never any meaningful discourse that comes out of these: just divisive kafkaesque noise.
