• ButtBidet [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    24·
    6 months ago

    I’m the first person to shit on Israelis, but I have met ppl who have fled conscription. I know they’re a rarity, but they do exist.

      • astreusEnglish
        16·
        6 months ago

        I dunno…the company I work for has a Tel Aviv office and there’s an Israeli on my team. We are always talking about this shit, how disgusting it is, how he got a black eye at the last protest for daring to call Muslims people, etc etc.

        There is a large amount of fascists in Israel - it is a European colonial state after all - but painting everyone with the same brush is not it, especially people that were born there and are trying to make it better for everyone. Like any large group, they are not homogenous and portraying any group as homogenously evil is dangerous to the extreme.

        I’d suggest reading some of the “New Historians” to get a sense of the wide range of people that live in the colony known as Israel. Ilan Pappe is a good place to start imo.

        (Edit: spelling)

        • GlueBear [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          6·
          6 months ago

          98% of Israelis believe netanyahu is using appropriate or not enough force on the gazans right now. I get that there are unicorns, but let’s not pretend this issue is a divider in Isntrael.

          The Isntraelis are protesting netanyahu for a bunch of dumb shit, and unsurprisingly genocide isn’t one of them.

          • astreusEnglish
            2·
            6 months ago

            Can I get a source for that number? The amount of Israeli propaganda when you try to search it is insane (jfc NPR) so can’t find anything concrete.

            • GlueBear [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              2·
              6 months ago

              Poll results were also hawkish when it came to the use of force in Gaza: 57.5% of Israeli Jews said that they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were using too little firepower in Gaza, 36.6% said the IDF was using an appropriate amount of firepower, while just 1.8% said they believed the IDF was using too much fire power, while 4.2% said they weren’t sure whether it was using too much or too little firepower.

              Source:

              https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/

              • astreusEnglish
                1·
                6 months ago

                Well goddamn! That’s insane! Thanks for the source.

                However, I’d still argue collective punishment of the (up to) 6% is still wrong. And the idea that they 94% are somehow too far gone to be changed is defeatist in the extreme!

                I’d also argue that no one is inherently fascist or unsavable. Brain washing can be broken. Calling for the deaths of roughly 9m people (as some of the others in this chain have done) is inherently wrong and plays into the reactionists hands (“they’d do it to us if they could so we need to do it to them”).

                EDIT: On top of that, I want to highlight the date: November 10, 2023. The poll was conducted a month after Oct 7th. I would be interested to see what the polls say now.

                  • astreusEnglish
                    1·
                    6 months ago

                    none of these people are redeemable

                    That was you.

                    Which led to someone else replying:

                    Statistically speaking there probably isn’t a nicer country if you were going to do a Hiroshima or Nagasaki.