I didn’t, the “oppose the US and you’ll be on the right side” heuristic only describes the end result, the core is still anti-imperialism
Interesting
Who do you support in the Ukraine war? Who would you support if the Chinese military invaded Taiwan?
Same with the US opposition to Nazi Germany after they supplied them with materials and weapons to crush the communist at home and in hope they’d go after the USSR.
The US government is made of many, many parts and conflicting goals and interests. The actions on student loan forgiveness are one small example, but the same applies even to big actions like what to do with Nazi Germany.
If there was a faction of the US government that was opposing Nazi Germany the whole time, and a faction of it that was supporting the Nazis even during part of the shooting war, is it fair to say you’d support the faction that was fighting the Nazis and oppose the faction that was supporting the Nazis? Or would you assert that the faction that was opposing the Nazis the whole time didn’t exist or things didn’t happen that way?
Who do you support in the Ukraine war? Who would you support if the Chinese military invaded Taiwan?
Re: Ukraine, I oppose the US’s actions. More specifically, I support peace at any cost; every day the war goes on, and every bomb we send there, is a bad day for someone, statistically mostly women and children. The region will never be safe again in our lifetimes. Literally anything would be better than what we’re seeing now. I have significant criticisms of Russia, but right now they would only serve to support more needless deaths.
Re: China. Assuming eventual, peaceful reunification was off the table due to US machinations and not invading meant a hostile state being used to launch hostile actions within PRC, I’d have to support it. The alternative is another Ukraine.
If there was a faction of the US government that was opposing Nazi Germany the whole time, and a faction of it that was supporting the Nazis even during part of the shooting war, is it fair to say you’d support the faction that was fighting the Nazis and oppose the faction that was supporting the Nazis?
This is correct. We’re getting into weird hypotheticals and counter-factuals. I’m more comfortable with things that actually happened.
There were Americans who opposed the nazis before 1941. During the mccarthy era, they were smeared as “preeminent anti-fascists” meaning “these people weren’t opposed to the nazis when we thought they were the answer to communism, that must mean they’re secret communists”.
Such a world where they were strongly influential, America might have taken different actions that had different results for the people living there and the heuristic wouldn’t work so well. But we don’t, and it does.
Have you read any Gerald Horne? The Counter Revolution of 1776 and The Counter Revolution of 1860 do a good job of showing how it’s baked into the US’s DNA.
every day the war goes on, and every bomb we send there, is a bad day for someone, statistically mostly women and children
not invading meant a hostile state being used to launch hostile actions within PRC, I’d have to support it
Fascinating
There were Americans who opposed the nazis before 1941. During the mccarthy era, they were smeared as “preeminent anti-fascists” meaning “these people weren’t opposed to the nazis when we thought they were the answer to communism, that must mean they’re secret communists”.
Very fascinating. Can you give me some examples of some of these people? I know people in my family who were against the Nazis have all these stories about how they were shunned by their neighbors, harassed, all these bad things had happened to them, because they were against the Nazis too early. Anyone with a native understanding of US history is real familiar with it.
You can just ask questions if something doesn’t make sense, I’m happy to fill in any gaps. The RoC was secured on Taiwan by the US toward the end of the civil war for the purpose of future regime change and very explicitly used for this purpose until Nixon. We’re talking about a country that dropped a bunch of lamas into Tibet in the 50s to restore their theocratic slave regime and supported terrorists in Xinjiang.
That’s pretty standard when you look at the way the US enacts regime change.
It’s late and I’m tired, I can search some examples from the HUAC or w/e where pre-1941 opposition of nazi germany gets smeared as pro-communism another time.
It’s late and I’m tired, I can search some examples from the HUAC or w/e of pre-1941 opposition of nazi germany gets smeared as pro-communism another time.
Interesting
Who do you support in the Ukraine war? Who would you support if the Chinese military invaded Taiwan?
The US government is made of many, many parts and conflicting goals and interests. The actions on student loan forgiveness are one small example, but the same applies even to big actions like what to do with Nazi Germany.
If there was a faction of the US government that was opposing Nazi Germany the whole time, and a faction of it that was supporting the Nazis even during part of the shooting war, is it fair to say you’d support the faction that was fighting the Nazis and oppose the faction that was supporting the Nazis? Or would you assert that the faction that was opposing the Nazis the whole time didn’t exist or things didn’t happen that way?
Re: Ukraine, I oppose the US’s actions. More specifically, I support peace at any cost; every day the war goes on, and every bomb we send there, is a bad day for someone, statistically mostly women and children. The region will never be safe again in our lifetimes. Literally anything would be better than what we’re seeing now. I have significant criticisms of Russia, but right now they would only serve to support more needless deaths.
Re: China. Assuming eventual, peaceful reunification was off the table due to US machinations and not invading meant a hostile state being used to launch hostile actions within PRC, I’d have to support it. The alternative is another Ukraine.
This is correct. We’re getting into weird hypotheticals and counter-factuals. I’m more comfortable with things that actually happened.
There were Americans who opposed the nazis before 1941. During the mccarthy era, they were smeared as “preeminent anti-fascists” meaning “these people weren’t opposed to the nazis when we thought they were the answer to communism, that must mean they’re secret communists”.
Such a world where they were strongly influential, America might have taken different actions that had different results for the people living there and the heuristic wouldn’t work so well. But we don’t, and it does.
Have you read any Gerald Horne? The Counter Revolution of 1776 and The Counter Revolution of 1860 do a good job of showing how it’s baked into the US’s DNA.
Fascinating
Very fascinating. Can you give me some examples of some of these people? I know people in my family who were against the Nazis have all these stories about how they were shunned by their neighbors, harassed, all these bad things had happened to them, because they were against the Nazis too early. Anyone with a native understanding of US history is real familiar with it.
You can just ask questions if something doesn’t make sense, I’m happy to fill in any gaps. The RoC was secured on Taiwan by the US toward the end of the civil war for the purpose of future regime change and very explicitly used for this purpose until Nixon. We’re talking about a country that dropped a bunch of lamas into Tibet in the 50s to restore their theocratic slave regime and supported terrorists in Xinjiang.
That’s pretty standard when you look at the way the US enacts regime change.
It’s late and I’m tired, I can search some examples from the HUAC or w/e where pre-1941 opposition of nazi germany gets smeared as pro-communism another time.
I’ll be waiting eagerly for you to enlighten me