I think we all want a change yes, but realistically I think, without a significant precursor catalyst that causes a big change such as what the “again” is referring to, I really doubt it. Remember we were on near civil war state before things changed the last time.
Remember we were on near civil war state before things changed the last time.
It’s not that bad, you know. The Nats and their SAPS attack-dogs only pushed us into all the pre-'94 violence after the change became inevitable - but that tidbit of trivia doesn’t make any of this any easier.
I’d say that it is possible to force change out of the ANC, but that will still take some doing - and we’re sure as hell not going to be doing it through the electoral process.
I’m not too familiar with what happened back then. Was too little to understand.
So I usually step out of these type of conversations. However today I am thinking of my kids and their future. They will inherit what is done now.
The comrades at the top in the ANC never knew what they had themselves in for, once they had to start taking over and I have always wondered what it would have been like if it was a hand over process, rather than just take your shit and run, for the de klerk manne.
That always had me saying, just wait for the old kronies to retire, and the new gen will take over, with better perspectives and approach. Then along came parties like EFF who tagerted the youth and in all honesty, burdened them with the hurt of the previous gen. Making sure they will keep on ruling from the grave.
So how do we change things. In my opinion, it’ll always be education and time. That allows for individuals to make their own decisions based on facts and experiences.
…The ANC knows this though.
I’m not too familiar with what happened back then.
There’s a lot of myths flying around about what really happened back then… people still buy into the “but we avoided a civil war” trope, even though the prospects of a civil war was very, very low back then. It’s a trope that was more associated with the '92 referendum than '94… or even reality. To be certain, there were people who definitely wanted a civil war - like the AWB-types and their cronies in the SAPS - but nobody that mattered was willing to engage in one.
So how do we change things.
The easiest way (though still very difficult and dangerous) that has historical precedent is to create a UDF (United Democratic Front) or MDM (Mass Democratic Movement) type broad coalition that can force the ANC to reverse course on it’s neoliberal shitfuckery. That’s easier said than done - and it’s going to be difficult to do while avoiding the toxic hijacking attempts by our (so-called) “opposition parties,” never mind the violent backlash such a coalition will face from the ANC itself.
The focus of the UDF and the MDM was on opposing Apartheid - this new coalition’s focus should be in taking back our public infrastructure from the commercialisation and privatisation wringer it has been put through by not just the ANC but pretty much all the political racketeers squatting in parliament.
It’s the only realistic way out that I can see - simply voting in another pack of political racketeers is going to end up producing more of the same. It’s like Chomsky said - politics does not affect policy.
So I find this a good time to come back here and reflect on what we mentioned in our posts. So given what you said in your last reply and the latest outcome, what are your thoughts. I like to hear your perspective
Now that “talks” (ie, backroom wheeling and dealing that we are “democratically” not allowed to say squat about) between the ANC and DA is an “official” thing, I have to resist the temptation to say, “I told you so!” to all my family members who still believed the DA “represents” them simply because they have white skins.
I remember me and Jolcognoscenti talking about the possibility of this happening on r/southafrica early last year - and, of course, getting downvoted into oblivion for it by all the angry white libs… fun times.
Sorry about the tangent… was there something specific you wanted to know about?
Nope I guess I just wanted to bring up this reply of yours again. I don’t know who down voted it but thought they might want to have a look at it again. Lol
There’s a gang of angry libs that seems to take turns following me around and downvoting everything I post - pretty much the same thing that happened on reddit.
I think we all want a change yes, but realistically I think, without a significant precursor catalyst that causes a big change such as what the “again” is referring to, I really doubt it. Remember we were on near civil war state before things changed the last time.
It’s not that bad, you know. The Nats and their SAPS attack-dogs only pushed us into all the pre-'94 violence after the change became inevitable - but that tidbit of trivia doesn’t make any of this any easier.
I’d say that it is possible to force change out of the ANC, but that will still take some doing - and we’re sure as hell not going to be doing it through the electoral process.
I’m not too familiar with what happened back then. Was too little to understand. So I usually step out of these type of conversations. However today I am thinking of my kids and their future. They will inherit what is done now. The comrades at the top in the ANC never knew what they had themselves in for, once they had to start taking over and I have always wondered what it would have been like if it was a hand over process, rather than just take your shit and run, for the de klerk manne. That always had me saying, just wait for the old kronies to retire, and the new gen will take over, with better perspectives and approach. Then along came parties like EFF who tagerted the youth and in all honesty, burdened them with the hurt of the previous gen. Making sure they will keep on ruling from the grave. So how do we change things. In my opinion, it’ll always be education and time. That allows for individuals to make their own decisions based on facts and experiences. …The ANC knows this though.
There’s a lot of myths flying around about what really happened back then… people still buy into the “but we avoided a civil war” trope, even though the prospects of a civil war was very, very low back then. It’s a trope that was more associated with the '92 referendum than '94… or even reality. To be certain, there were people who definitely wanted a civil war - like the AWB-types and their cronies in the SAPS - but nobody that mattered was willing to engage in one.
The easiest way (though still very difficult and dangerous) that has historical precedent is to create a UDF (United Democratic Front) or MDM (Mass Democratic Movement) type broad coalition that can force the ANC to reverse course on it’s neoliberal shitfuckery. That’s easier said than done - and it’s going to be difficult to do while avoiding the toxic hijacking attempts by our (so-called) “opposition parties,” never mind the violent backlash such a coalition will face from the ANC itself.
The focus of the UDF and the MDM was on opposing Apartheid - this new coalition’s focus should be in taking back our public infrastructure from the commercialisation and privatisation wringer it has been put through by not just the ANC but pretty much all the political racketeers squatting in parliament.
It’s the only realistic way out that I can see - simply voting in another pack of political racketeers is going to end up producing more of the same. It’s like Chomsky said - politics does not affect policy.
So I find this a good time to come back here and reflect on what we mentioned in our posts. So given what you said in your last reply and the latest outcome, what are your thoughts. I like to hear your perspective
Lol!
Now that “talks” (ie, backroom wheeling and dealing that we are “democratically” not allowed to say squat about) between the ANC and DA is an “official” thing, I have to resist the temptation to say, “I told you so!” to all my family members who still believed the DA “represents” them simply because they have white skins.
I remember me and Jolcognoscenti talking about the possibility of this happening on r/southafrica early last year - and, of course, getting downvoted into oblivion for it by all the angry white libs… fun times.
Sorry about the tangent… was there something specific you wanted to know about?
Nope I guess I just wanted to bring up this reply of yours again. I don’t know who down voted it but thought they might want to have a look at it again. Lol
There’s a gang of angry libs that seems to take turns following me around and downvoting everything I post - pretty much the same thing that happened on reddit.
It doesn’t bother me much.