- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
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Israel is also killing journalists, as well as aid workers, its own hostage citizens waving white flags, along with thousands of non combative Palestinians, the majority being women and children.
Yeah, they don’t even mention the 100+ journalists they murdered. Not sure if Iran even has one?
other than the 834 executions last year of protesters / dissidents and general killings of protesters, here’s 1 known killing of an iranian journalist.
there’s also the other attempts to kill iranian journalists abroad, but fortunately they’re incompetent.And their proxies in Hezbollah.
Why are we giving these guys any money.
Serious answer?
Not in any particular order:
- Military aid to Israel is a defacto rebate for all the stuff they buy and a subsidy for the US defense industry. A lot of US politicians are on the military industrial complex payroll or end up working for it. A lot of Americans work in related industries.
- Just like with Europe, pushing them to buy American weaponry, ensures their native defense industry can’t become a significant competitor. (Obviously this is an issue in Europe right now, given we’ve been caught with a pants down because we’re too reliant on the US defense industry) For example, wouldn’t want the Israeli defense industry to develop their own highly capable missiles, because they might end up selling them to parties the US doesn’t want to have advanced tech, eg. some Israeli companies were found to have illegally sold China cruise missiles a few years back. That kind of thing would explode if the Israelis were independent for defense.
- Strategically interesting to have an ally in the middle-east, especially one with an excellent (foreign) intelligence service. Giving Israel aid also ensures neighbours don’t do anything stupid. A powerful military is the best deterent. A powerful conventional military, also avoids Israel going nuclear.
- Not the worst regime the US supports/has supported. Enemy of my enemy Real politik.
- AIPAC
- Evangelicals
- Outdated views of what Israel is actually like and a language barrier that has allowed Americans (and American reporters) to ignore the stuff not said in English.
Military aid to Israel is a defacto rebate for all the stuff they buy and a subsidy for the US defense industry.
Israel (and only israel) actually has a special exception where they don’t have to spend all the money on American weapons. and they can bolster it into their own weapons industry. So it’s actually the opposite of what you just said.
All countries are required to spend their FMF funds in the United States - with the notable exception of Israel
edit: the previous article was from 2002, here’s one from not 22 years ago
Israel has also historically been permitted to use a portion of its FMF aid to buy equipment from Israeli defense firms—a benefit not granted to other recipients of U.S. military aid
Just so you know, defacto means in practice. Not in law.
Your second article is interesting:
Israel has also historically been permitted to use a portion of its FMF aid to buy equipment from Israeli defense firms—a benefit not granted to other recipients of U.S. military aid
I’ve posted the rest of the paragraph:
Israel has also historically been permitted to use a portion of its FMF aid to buy equipment from Israeli defense firms—a benefit not granted to other recipients of U.S. military aid—but this domestic procurement is to be phased out in the next few years. U.S. aid reportedly accounts for some 15 percent of Israel’s defense budget. Israel, like many other countries, also buys U.S. military products outside of the FMF program.
And the article you linked to goes on to say:
Other experts argue that U.S. aid actually weakens Israel’s own defense industrial base while serving primarily as a guaranteed revenue stream for U.S. defense contractors.
The article you linked to, then links to an article you really should have read before commenting.
As the price of its dependency, Israel is now being forced to downgrade its own defense industries. Whereas the previous MOU contained a special provision for Off-Shore Procurement (OSP) that allowed Israel to spend around 26% of the aid it received on domestic products, the new terms require that all aid received from Washington be spent inside the U.S. In 2018, Israel’s Defense Ministry projected that the new MOU would cost the country $1.3 billion annually in lost revenue and cause the loss of some 22,000 jobs. Moshe Gafni, a former chairman of the Knesset’s financial committee, warned of the deal’s “severe ramifications for the delicate fabric of the State of Israel, harming its security.” A separate assessment in 2020 by the Israeli think tank INSS, concluded that “anywhere between several thousand and 20,000 of the 80,000 jobs in the defense industries in Israel will be lost.” … The consequences for Israel’s economy and to the country’s security posture will get more severe in coming years as the full bill from the MOU comes due. According to a congressional report, the “phasing out [of] Off-Shore Procurement (OSP) is to decrease slowly until FY2024, and then phase out more dramatically over the MOU’s last five years, ending entirely in FY2028.” As a consequence, the report notes “some Israeli defense contractors are merging with U.S. companies or opening U.S. subsidiaries”—in other words, transferring their personnel and capacities from Israel to the U.S. So, in return for a so-called “aid package” that actually costs Israel a fortune, the Jewish state is now tethered to its benefactor’s Iran-centric foreign policy and prohibited from capitalizing on its own considerable capabilities, while granting the U.S. access to its best military and scientific minds at a heavily reduced rate of pennies on the dollar. In turn, the ostensible largesse of this arrangement transforms Israel into a scapegoat for every lunatic conspiracy theorist in America to indulge in Jew-baiting in the guise of pontificating about “U.S. foreign policy.” Indeed, in order to maintain their own power, the entire cosmos of American Jewish organizations, with few exceptions, is now dedicated almost exclusively to maintaining an arrangement that cripples Israel’s capacity for independent action, while locking American Jews into a permanent posture of appearing to suck the U.S. government dry in order to fund their own niche overseas project.
That’s an article you linked to indirectly. Not me.
Look, this isn’t the first time this happened Linkerbaan, but you really need to read the articles you’re posting. Because if you don’t or give the appearance of disingeniously cutting out the bits you think don’t support your argument, you undermine any argument you make.
Put simply, when you go around the fediverse going spouting unnuanced or underresearched rhetoric, in an attempt to virtue signal that you’re the fiercest critic of Israel, you are in fact undermining your argument and the cause of those who are critical of Israel’s far right government and the occupation.
That’s assuming you actually care about the Palestinians, and this isn’t simply about parrotting Russian propaganda in the run-up to the US election.
It’s not phased out nor are concrete plans to phase it out mentioned. Ergo that is irrelevant to the argument.
I’m talking about reality not theoretical plans. You are factually wrong and I corrected you just accept it and move on.
nor are concrete plans to phase it out mentioned.
Once again, the article you cited, with the bit you cut out included and in bold:
Israel has also historically been permitted to use a portion of its FMF aid to buy equipment from Israeli defense firms—a benefit not granted to other recipients of U.S. military aid—but this domestic procurement is to be phased out in the next few years.
And the article linked to in the article you cited:
According to a congressional report, the “phasing out [of] Off-Shore Procurement (OSP) is to decrease slowly until FY2024, and then phase out more dramatically over the MOU’s last five years, ending entirely in FY2028.” As a consequence, the report notes “some Israeli defense contractors are merging with U.S. companies or opening U.S. subsidiaries”—in other words, transferring their personnel and capacities from Israel to the U.S.
The only thing you’ve proved is your inability or unwillingness to read.
Given previous interactions, I suspect it’s the former.
You are factually wrong and I corrected you just accept it and move on.
I’m sure you believe that. Good for you.
I think that just means that they are pretending to be American companies that operate in israel.
Let’s see it being phased out before celebrations. We’ve seen plenty of “plans” change the moment they are supposed to be implemented. Does the current massive 26 Billion require American only spending ye?
At the current moment israel is taking military aid dollars and using them in their own economy not the American one.
- Israel is used to ensure continued divide and destabilization to keep the Middle East at perpetual war, making resource extraction cheaper and preventing the formation of a unified Arab block, that would have more people than the EU, be economically en par but strategically much better situated.
Note that this aspect is not exclusive to the US or EU. Russia is also quite happy with keeping the Middle East in this state. For China it remains to be seen, if they want a stable Middle East for the Belts and Roads, or if they arrange with the way it is currently.
Because they are on your side of the river… oh wait, they are not. They must be wearing your color of t-shirt, then.
For those who missed how fun the Israel prison experience is; Israeli Channel 13 proudly reported on it
Video of Israel arresting random people in Gaza and claiming they are elite Hamas: https://files.catbox.moe/uqvfoa.mp4
Video of Israel making prisoners kneel for multiple hours a day https://files.catbox.moe/eg9xz7.mp4
Video of the Israeli prison tour featuring the real victims https://files.catbox.moe/zm7113.mp4
The dogs are used to attack prisoners. Even children. https://www.dci-palestine.org/palestinian_child_detained_without_charge_attacked_by_israeli_military_dog
" Israeli forces violated his rights, beat him, and unleashed an Israeli military dog which attacked him."
It can’t be can it???
They don’t have that self awareness. The indoctrination starts at birth.
“In Judaism, the concept of the Jews as chosen people (Hebrew: הָעָם הַנִבְחַר hāʿām hanīvḥar) is the belief that the Jews as a subset, via partial descent from the ancient Israelites, are also chosen people, i.e. selected to be in a covenant with God.”
“According to Deuteronomy, when the Lord delivers the Israelites to the land, the other nations will be cast out, and “thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them”
“But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth””
Sure except most Jews don’t apply that literally.
Removed by mod
“Are we the baddies?”
Bloody hypocrites
It’s sad, but I realized a few weeks ago that if you map out the direction of Israel, the hard right vision is essentially Iran.
Setting aside the treatment of the Palestinians, Israel was once known for its cosmopolitan night life and high quality universities. Now, its seen a takeover by the militant, backwards, misogynistic theocrats. And as more and more people get angry about losing their rights, the theocrats get more and more heavy-handed in militarizing their society, both inwardly and outwardly. And as the rest of the world becomes more and more disgusted, the country is becoming more and more isolated.
I still believe in a better way: I want to see a one state solution.
People don’t say this often but I actually appreciate what there is to like about Israel. There’s a lot of cool people and great culture and natural splendor. Same for Palestine too. If we can just apply enough pressure and stop saying “tWo sTaTE soLuTiON! tWO sTAte SoLUtION!!” and just say “Enough. It’s time you recognized that it’s been one country oppressing half its population this whole time, so stop oppressing people and give everyone the same rights.”
I say this because the status quo is already over. I think that it can either become modern South Africa, or Iran. Those are the two most likely paths, and I really want the first one.
The Zionists and their supporters do not want a two state solution ever. Zionism is a fascist ideology. As such it needs the perpetual doublethink of “we are the greatest and superior to everyone else” like written in the Israel constitution as an Ethnostate for ethnic Jews while also constantly claiming “we are at the brink of extinction and need a brutal government to protect us, from all the other people”.
The language, the demeanor and the actions of the mainstream Israel politics, media and culture are showing this to an extreme.
A one state solution would be the polar opposite, as it would not only rely on acknowledging that ethnic or any other supremacism is always wrong, but also the realization that not everyone is out to get you, if you stop murdering and oppressing people.
Well the Confederate states didn’t want to end slavery, and South Africa’s ruling elites didn’t want to get rid of apartheid.
This is what I want, and I’m going to keep saying that the world should compel them to accept it.
how do you explain rabin and the oslo accords then?
and all the israelis who voted for parties that support the 2 state solution?Rabin was murdered by a Likud fanatic with ties to the Mossad, after Netanyahu and his fascist friends have called for violence against Rabin, and compared him to Hitler. That was 30 years ago.
Since then Likud and the less far right parties that briefly ruled in between have turned Israel into what it is now.
the conspiracy theory is about shabak, not the mossad and it was spread by radical israeli right-wingers as a conpiracy by, what they consider, a leftist shabak that was trying to delegitimize the right and increase the support for the left.
yigal amir supported kahanists like ben gvir and his ilk, not the likud.after rabin, there was ehud barak who was voted in, who also tried to reach a 2 state solution with arafat in 2000.
Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948
After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.
Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ
History of peace process - The Intercept
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
- Avi Shlaim
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
You can admire Israel’s natural beauty (which is just deserts really?) and still support a two state solution though
I think a one state solution is ultimately better. Needs a heavy handed 3rd party arbitrator. But it will work out in the end.
For that to happen Zionism needs to be banned and the indoctrination of children to believe that they are carrying intergenerational trauma in order to justify apartheid and genocide needs to end
You don’t think deserts can be beautiful?
where’d you get that from? another “truthout” article?
only the south of israel is mainly desert.I mean, I’ve been there. I’m aware of the geography. Not sure what the source has to do with it?
you wrote “You can admire Israel’s natural beauty (which is just deserts really?)”.
if you’ve been there, you’re supposed to know that while the south of israel is mostly deserts, you won’t find any deserts in the rest of it.What is your definition of “most” exactly? Because mine is “more than half,” which literally matches what I said. It’s almost 2/3rds desert.
i wrote most of the south, not most of israel…
and you wrote “just deserts”…
the center and north don’t have deserts.
there are meadows and forests. in some places there’s snow in the winter.
so again, not “just deserts really”. which is what you wrote.deleted by creator
Here, here!
Freedom of depression.
This is not surprising.
They learned it from us.
