And we are still going to give Israel billions of dollars in aid while they laugh in our face and do whatever the fuck they want. Biden has no spine needs to fucking go. A fucking golden retriever would command more respect than Biden at this point.
I appreciate your passion but the relationship with Israel is more complicated than Biden saying “Israel stop or we can’t be friends anymore”.
Israel is a strong strategic partner that provides a lot of value to the United States in terms of intelligence and military support, which is not a bridge we want to burn if there are other options.
Aside from that, Israel has a lot of backing from Americans across the political spectrum. Since America isn’t a dictatorship Biden has to rely on congress if he wants to get anything done. Since Biden has to rely on congress to get anything done, and Israel has broad support from American voters and thus their Congressional representatives, Biden has to make sure he doesn’t piss off congress. So burning diplomatic relations with Israel would probably hurt Biden much more than it would hurt him at this point.
As a last point, a lot of people are advocating for withholding arms sales to Israel. This is the “nuclear option” of diplomacy and once it’s executed we don’t really have any more leverage. So if the United States stops arms sales to Israel, and they don’t stop the invasion of Gaza, we don’t really have anymore carrots left to influence Israel.
Our complex relationship with Israel is a problem that the United States needs to solve, but it is incredibly complicated and is something that will take years to sort out effectively.
Eh idk about that. Historically the only thing keeping the UN from rolling in the tanks in response to Israel’s actions has been America’s UNSC veto. I am fully in favor of an international coup of Israel at this point, their political system is rotten to the core and unlike Russia they have no veto
I’d rather see ICJ arrest warrants than a coup/mandatory caretaker government - because that just throws the clock back 80 years to when that didn’t work and solves none of the structural problems, and we don’t want another ‘police action’ entanglement of US/international troops in Israel & Palestine.
Besides, Israel does have a veto independent of the US - they have nukes. That’s a mine that cannot be discounted.
I don’t believe you. The UN doesn’t have the power or authority to “roll tanks” anywhere, much less the desire. Regardless, I’m not sure what eradicating the Jewish state has to do with how American foreign policy works.
By the way, eradicating the Jewish state sounds a lot like a genocide against Jewish people in Israel. Much like eradicating the Palestinian state sounds like a genocide against Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank, but I’m sure that wasn’t what you meant.
It has the power and authority, as demonstrated by the Korean war (which happened only because the soviet’s were abstaining and the ROC still having China’s vote . It certainly doesn’t have the desire however.
Maybe you have context that I don’t, but I’m don’t see how the Korean war demonstrates the UN has the power and authority to initiate a military coup against a member state.
Genocide is killing people of a certain community, or trying to destroy their culture. Toppling a government or conquering a nation is obviously wrong, but has nothing to do with genocide.
Israel is a strong strategic partner that provides a lot of value to the United States in terms of intelligence and military support, which is not a bridge we want to burn if there are other options.
What exactly do they provide in terms of military value? They’re a counter to Iran and other regional powers that are in part pissed off because Israel is there, constantly trying to steal land from its neighbors. The region would hardly become the pinnacle of peace and stability if we magically removed Israel from the map, but Israel’s actions are a major contributing force destabilizing the region and ramping up tensions. Even if we concede that they provide enough military and intelligence value to offset how much they also stir up problems in the region, at what point do we have to cut our losses and admit that continuing to merely be associated with Israel and the atrocities it perpetuates, much less enabling them, does damage to the US that far exceeds any benefits they offer?
Aside from that, Israel has a lot of backing from Americans across the political spectrum. Since America isn’t a dictatorship Biden has to rely on congress if he wants to get anything done. Since Biden has to rely on congress to get anything done, and Israel has broad support from American voters
Israel has broad support from older voters, White Protestants (White Protestant Evangelicals in particular) and Jewish Americans. Outside of these groups, they have lower support and it’s continually eroding as the current conflict goes on. This is a shrinking number of Democrats and Republican voters holding the rest of the country hostage, as they do on so many issues.
So if the United States stops arms sales to Israel, and they don’t stop the invasion of Gaza, we don’t really have anymore carrots left to influence Israel.
If the carrot doesn’t work, maybe it’s time to try the stick. The US could literally just stop blocking UN motions intended to punish Israel for its violations of human rights and international law, or even impose some heavy sanctions of its own. Start imprisoning US citizens who are trying to buy up Palestinian land being sold off at synagogues, while we’re at it. If that still doesn’t do the trick, I imagine that if the next arms shipment came via shots fired at settlers trying to massacre another Palestinian village, or a nice bomb dropped on Netanyahu’s head, Israel would shape up real quick.
Continuing to enable them is just perpetuating more suffering in Palestine and further damaging what little remains of the US’ reputation in the international community.
I’m not encouraging or discouraging support for Israel, just pointing out that there’s no “Gaza genocide” switch on Joe Biden’s desk that he can flip off. Foreign policy is incredibly complicated and needs careful and deliberate action.
I didn’t make any value judgements about the efficacy of the steps we’re taking to stop this genocide, but if I have to judge our efforts I would say they are barely nonexistent and the United States needs to do better.
USA has no spine. FTFY. Biden alone did not make that decision and Orange man wouldn’t have done any better. The only American with a backbone was Aaron Bushnell.
What primary? The DNC made sure that no other candidate will be running against Biden. They shut down primary debates throughout the entire country. The DNC said its going to be Biden and that was the end of it.
Yeah seriously I didn’t even know that there was a primary held for the party currently in office. I never get anything in the mail about them like I do for every other election. I honestly had no idea this was a thing.
And we are still going to give Israel billions of dollars in aid while they laugh in our face and do whatever the fuck they want. Biden has no spine needs to fucking go. A fucking golden retriever would command more respect than Biden at this point.
I appreciate your passion but the relationship with Israel is more complicated than Biden saying “Israel stop or we can’t be friends anymore”.
Israel is a strong strategic partner that provides a lot of value to the United States in terms of intelligence and military support, which is not a bridge we want to burn if there are other options.
Aside from that, Israel has a lot of backing from Americans across the political spectrum. Since America isn’t a dictatorship Biden has to rely on congress if he wants to get anything done. Since Biden has to rely on congress to get anything done, and Israel has broad support from American voters and thus their Congressional representatives, Biden has to make sure he doesn’t piss off congress. So burning diplomatic relations with Israel would probably hurt Biden much more than it would hurt him at this point.
As a last point, a lot of people are advocating for withholding arms sales to Israel. This is the “nuclear option” of diplomacy and once it’s executed we don’t really have any more leverage. So if the United States stops arms sales to Israel, and they don’t stop the invasion of Gaza, we don’t really have anymore carrots left to influence Israel.
Our complex relationship with Israel is a problem that the United States needs to solve, but it is incredibly complicated and is something that will take years to sort out effectively.
Eh idk about that. Historically the only thing keeping the UN from rolling in the tanks in response to Israel’s actions has been America’s UNSC veto. I am fully in favor of an international coup of Israel at this point, their political system is rotten to the core and unlike Russia they have no veto
I’d rather see ICJ arrest warrants than a coup/mandatory caretaker government - because that just throws the clock back 80 years to when that didn’t work and solves none of the structural problems, and we don’t want another ‘police action’ entanglement of US/international troops in Israel & Palestine.
Besides, Israel does have a veto independent of the US - they have nukes. That’s a mine that cannot be discounted.
I don’t believe you. The UN doesn’t have the power or authority to “roll tanks” anywhere, much less the desire. Regardless, I’m not sure what eradicating the Jewish state has to do with how American foreign policy works.
By the way, eradicating the Jewish state sounds a lot like a genocide against Jewish people in Israel. Much like eradicating the Palestinian state sounds like a genocide against Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank, but I’m sure that wasn’t what you meant.
It has the power and authority, as demonstrated by the Korean war (which happened only because the soviet’s were abstaining and the ROC still having China’s vote . It certainly doesn’t have the desire however.
Maybe you have context that I don’t, but I’m don’t see how the Korean war demonstrates the UN has the power and authority to initiate a military coup against a member state.
Genocide is killing people of a certain community, or trying to destroy their culture. Toppling a government or conquering a nation is obviously wrong, but has nothing to do with genocide.
What exactly do they provide in terms of military value? They’re a counter to Iran and other regional powers that are in part pissed off because Israel is there, constantly trying to steal land from its neighbors. The region would hardly become the pinnacle of peace and stability if we magically removed Israel from the map, but Israel’s actions are a major contributing force destabilizing the region and ramping up tensions. Even if we concede that they provide enough military and intelligence value to offset how much they also stir up problems in the region, at what point do we have to cut our losses and admit that continuing to merely be associated with Israel and the atrocities it perpetuates, much less enabling them, does damage to the US that far exceeds any benefits they offer?
Israel has broad support from older voters, White Protestants (White Protestant Evangelicals in particular) and Jewish Americans. Outside of these groups, they have lower support and it’s continually eroding as the current conflict goes on. This is a shrinking number of Democrats and Republican voters holding the rest of the country hostage, as they do on so many issues.
If the carrot doesn’t work, maybe it’s time to try the stick. The US could literally just stop blocking UN motions intended to punish Israel for its violations of human rights and international law, or even impose some heavy sanctions of its own. Start imprisoning US citizens who are trying to buy up Palestinian land being sold off at synagogues, while we’re at it. If that still doesn’t do the trick, I imagine that if the next arms shipment came via shots fired at settlers trying to massacre another Palestinian village, or a nice bomb dropped on Netanyahu’s head, Israel would shape up real quick.
Continuing to enable them is just perpetuating more suffering in Palestine and further damaging what little remains of the US’ reputation in the international community.
I’m not encouraging or discouraging support for Israel, just pointing out that there’s no “Gaza genocide” switch on Joe Biden’s desk that he can flip off. Foreign policy is incredibly complicated and needs careful and deliberate action.
I didn’t make any value judgements about the efficacy of the steps we’re taking to stop this genocide, but if I have to judge our efforts I would say they are barely nonexistent and the United States needs to do better.
Its a common taking point but Israel provides nothing of comparable value.
I’m not fucking stupid and I know how our government works and our history with Israel. Don’t talk to me like I’m some fucking moron.
All you’re doing is making excuses for Genocide.
So you understand it, and yet refuse to acknowledge it or reply to any specifics about it. Instead just shout “YoUrE mAkInG eXcUsEs for GeNoCiDe!!”
Sounds about right.
USA has no spine. FTFY. Biden alone did not make that decision and Orange man wouldn’t have done any better. The only American with a backbone was Aaron Bushnell.
No motherfucker its not the USA its fucking Biden, maybe if you grew a fucking spine you wouldn’t be here defending Biden. Fucking pussy
Missed your chance in the primary.
What primary? The DNC made sure that no other candidate will be running against Biden. They shut down primary debates throughout the entire country. The DNC said its going to be Biden and that was the end of it.
Yeah seriously I didn’t even know that there was a primary held for the party currently in office. I never get anything in the mail about them like I do for every other election. I honestly had no idea this was a thing.