I’m not going to debate about whether anyone could be a clinically undiagnosed case or how often that occurs with any demographic. All I am going to say is that if you self-diagnose any neurological condition, you’ve got a better chance of being wrong than you do right. This is not open for debate. If this statement upsets you, or you would like to challenge it, too bad. You cannot play pretend forever.
I debate your ability to debate my authority when no authority exists in the principality of thought, especially when I’ve made clear my disinterest in debating the matter.
I’m still celebrating 4/20, I’m not taking time away from that to argue with strangers the semantics about how various fallacies reduce the efficacy of self-diagnoses, because even if I were somehow able to expound upon it succinctly it would still be dismissed because people don’t like being told they are wrongfully believing something and even less so that their reasoning is flawed.
Happy 4/23! You made a very specific statistical claim that definitely requires evidence if you want anyone to take you seriously:
if you self-diagnose any neurological condition, you’ve got a better chance of being wrong than you do right
Edit: another comment of yours about your knowledge of any data justifying this claim suggests that you pulled it out of your ass
If we do, I’d be intensely interested to see them. But something tells me this is one of those experiments where data collection and validation presents challenges.
I did make such a claim, but I reckon/imagine that any experiment conducted to test the hypothesis would be unavoidably confounded due to the nature of the subject-- how are you going to formulate a fool-proof and unquestionable experiment process for this? I’m interested to hear any ideas you might have, but any I could come up with seemed confounded enough to not even be worth mentioning, but perhaps someone more acquainted with such experiments could devise a sufficient method.
Statistics and scientific value aside, I stand by my statement because, in a very loose sense, it is generally applicable as a truth-y function, where certain assumptions are made:
Assume demographic is generally highschool-graduate education level
Assume relevant research literature present to demographic is diluted, second-hand-- majority might primarily source info from blogs, media articles, WebMD and perhaps available scientific literature secondarily (not their fault, science publication access is criminally shit)
Assume little or sparse general exposure to relevant clinical cases among majority
Assume minority of <20% have relevant experience in the field or have otherwise underwent traditional schooling/training to attain career with exposure
So yes, while I did think the wording up on the spot, I have given the topic consideration prior and following my post. And I still stand by it, though perhaps I could be more concise: the majority of individuals who seek to diagnose themselves do not typically possess the insights and familiarity necessary to reach a sound diagnosis. Furthermore, a professional qualified to diagnose others might refrain from diagnosing themselves due to experience. Therefore, it can safely be assumed that the majority of individuals who engage in self-diagnoses of neurological symptoms will inaccurately characterize their condition.
I also want to just add that if anyone is by chance offended that I am insinuating they may have misdiagnosed themselves-- good, because I’m not insinuating it, I am betting on it. And as I have hopefully made painfully clear, I am immovably confident in my stance on self-diagnoses particularly as it relates to ASD. I am open to further discussion surrounding this, but I will never yield this position because, quite simply, you cannot reduce what I have experienced in life to something you think you have. I am telling you now, and I very much do not want to elaborate, anyone who says today they may have undiagnosed ASD would not want to have been diagnosed with ASD as a kid. It was not helpful, it was not fun, it did irreparable harm. Please, just trust me when I say you do not know this brand of hell.
I am an autistic male. They used to sterilize us. The term schizoid literally refers to us. It wasn’t until 1963 that they stopped putting us in mental institutions. Even then, it was still easy to become ward of the state. Medicaid, social security, and charity are the only things keeping adults like my little brother from being unsustainable in a home environment. They used to live in fear of having autism. Fetuses were terminated as a result of speculative diagnoses.
By self diagnosing yourself, you are reducing decades of unimaginable personal suffering among untold individuals and families across the nation to equate to your quirks.
So please, do not diminish this blight on our country’s mental health record, or it stands to be forgotten. And I am sorry for the wake-up call.
If anyone knows your life, it is yourself, so when you know the diagnostic criteria, why wouldn’t you be qualified to self-diagnose?
As an anecdote: I have researched (among other conditions) ADHD and Autism so deeply, that I know probably more than the psychiatrics I had to do with about those (also probably not exactly ND behavior). Having all your behavior be confirmed by someone else is good anyway, but I don’t see a big issue with self-diagnosis when you’ve done your research (and took a few questionaires).
I was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome when I was in grade school, after my little brother was diagnosed with Kanner’s syndrome. There was initial skepticism that my diagnosis may have been decided by my relation to my little brother, but that was dispelled after it was correlated with various unexplained psychobehavioral traits I’d exhibited growing up, and the presence of a shared birth mark that suggests a contributing genetic factor. There’s speculation around what caused this genetic factor, but it’s potentially linked with both parents’ military service.
Today, I typically don’t bother to tell people about my diagnosis unless it ever comes up, because I think people view it as more significant than it is and I don’t want people to change the way they see me based solely on their misunderstanding of or prior experiences with ASD. Most people say they would never be able to tell and sometimes even have a hard time believing that I am on the spectrum. Which is good, because it means I’m being allowed to live a normal life likr I’ve always wanted instead of being seen as needing some assistance or handicap.
I would have much rather that I was never diagnosed, though my brother’s was entirely necessary. My life trajectory would have been significantly better across many dimensions. The knowledge of my diagnosis only ever hindered me throughout my childhood development stages. It might not be too much to say that it traumatized me. I spent the next decade building and refining a mask to hide behind, to shield myself and maintain full control over how my presence is perceived. And now I can’t take it off.
What’s worse is when I came to find that, as the old adage goes, we all wear masks of our own creation. The only thing making mine perhaps notably distinct is that it’s creation and refinement was feverishly dwelt over for almost two thirds of my life now. How I was perceived was always in the forefront of my mind, whether or not I had an actionable plan to change. Every word I spoke, every move I made, was either in an attempt to appear normal or hopeless abandon as I lost confidence in my ability to hide in plain sight. It damn near killed me.
For the very reason of this life experience I have expounded here before you today, I do not respect or encourage any element of self-diagnoses that could lead an individual to suffer the torments I did. And before you say anything about resources – if you are Asperger’s, odds are they won’t be enough and many of them are unnecessary concessions that will hinder you.
Well I guess it quite depends on your view towards a diagnosis of ASD. For some it can be relief to understand themselves and for some like your case it may weigh you down. The motive of that knowledge and functioning in NT society is important on whether a diagnosis really helps I guess.
I have not yet taken a formal diagnosis because I don’t really see a benefit for me (I have an ADHD one though, but I don’t think it explains the whole story), and as you already mentioned masking is a thing and it seems to get “easier” further in life as you learn to mask better.
For others it may be beneficial. I don’t think you should project your experience onto others, just because it wasn’t good for you.
After all a diagnosis should help you function better in society and understand yourself better. It shouldn’t weigh you down (sorry if that’s your experience).
After having read too many articles about all of that stuff, it’s after all labels for strong and strongly correlating as I like it to call personality traits (or “conditions”). So yeah, if the label (i.e. diagnosis) helps you, good for you. But if you function well enough in society without additional help, sure you probably don’t really need a formal diagnosis, but I don’t see a reason why you shouldn’t self-diagnose, when you’ve done your research, and you want some explanation for your behavior.
If we do, I’d be intensely interested to see them. But something tells me this is one of those experiments where data collection and validation presents challenges.
And I don’t understand autistic people who
gatekeep autism and say that people can’t
research and validate their own neurovariance
as autistic. You’ve experienced all the ableism
levied against you and your autism, right? Why
would anyone who is NOT autistic CHOOSE that
for themselves!?
Wanting to have an autism diagnosis certainly
isn’t “neurotypical” behavior. Maybe you should
look at why people identifying as autistic makes
you uncomfortable.
Thanks for sharing this! I’m saving a copy to show others.
My autism was missed and I went undiagnosed for about 30 years. I think there are a lot of people that were diagnosed at a younger age that don’t understand just how expensive and difficult it can be to get diagnosed as an adult. Luckily, I still have a living parent or they wouldn’t have done the evaluation at all. It took months and that’s if you don’t count the 10+ years that I requested the evaluation. Several therapists had to comment to push my insurance company to even consider it. I tried to go around my insurance at one point and just pay the thousands it would have cost but had trouble finding anyone local and competent that wanted to diagnose an adult.
It’s not as simple as “call the doctor and ask” for a lot of adults. There are so many barriers and some you can’t do anything about.
I’m not going to debate about whether anyone could be a clinically undiagnosed case or how often that occurs with any demographic. All I am going to say is that if you self-diagnose any neurological condition, you’ve got a better chance of being wrong than you do right. This is not open for debate. If this statement upsets you, or you would like to challenge it, too bad. You cannot play pretend forever.
I debate your authority to declare that there will be no debate, I tell you whut.
I debate your ability to debate my authority when no authority exists in the principality of thought, especially when I’ve made clear my disinterest in debating the matter.
It’s absolutely open for debate and not obviously true
I’m still celebrating 4/20, I’m not taking time away from that to argue with strangers the semantics about how various fallacies reduce the efficacy of self-diagnoses, because even if I were somehow able to expound upon it succinctly it would still be dismissed because people don’t like being told they are wrongfully believing something and even less so that their reasoning is flawed.
Happy 4/23! You made a very specific statistical claim that definitely requires evidence if you want anyone to take you seriously:
Edit: another comment of yours about your knowledge of any data justifying this claim suggests that you pulled it out of your ass
Happy Tuesday,
I did make such a claim, but I reckon/imagine that any experiment conducted to test the hypothesis would be unavoidably confounded due to the nature of the subject-- how are you going to formulate a fool-proof and unquestionable experiment process for this? I’m interested to hear any ideas you might have, but any I could come up with seemed confounded enough to not even be worth mentioning, but perhaps someone more acquainted with such experiments could devise a sufficient method.
Statistics and scientific value aside, I stand by my statement because, in a very loose sense, it is generally applicable as a truth-y function, where certain assumptions are made:
So yes, while I did think the wording up on the spot, I have given the topic consideration prior and following my post. And I still stand by it, though perhaps I could be more concise: the majority of individuals who seek to diagnose themselves do not typically possess the insights and familiarity necessary to reach a sound diagnosis. Furthermore, a professional qualified to diagnose others might refrain from diagnosing themselves due to experience. Therefore, it can safely be assumed that the majority of individuals who engage in self-diagnoses of neurological symptoms will inaccurately characterize their condition.
I hope that helps. Have a good one.
I also want to just add that if anyone is by chance offended that I am insinuating they may have misdiagnosed themselves-- good, because I’m not insinuating it, I am betting on it. And as I have hopefully made painfully clear, I am immovably confident in my stance on self-diagnoses particularly as it relates to ASD. I am open to further discussion surrounding this, but I will never yield this position because, quite simply, you cannot reduce what I have experienced in life to something you think you have. I am telling you now, and I very much do not want to elaborate, anyone who says today they may have undiagnosed ASD would not want to have been diagnosed with ASD as a kid. It was not helpful, it was not fun, it did irreparable harm. Please, just trust me when I say you do not know this brand of hell.
I am an autistic male. They used to sterilize us. The term schizoid literally refers to us. It wasn’t until 1963 that they stopped putting us in mental institutions. Even then, it was still easy to become ward of the state. Medicaid, social security, and charity are the only things keeping adults like my little brother from being unsustainable in a home environment. They used to live in fear of having autism. Fetuses were terminated as a result of speculative diagnoses.
By self diagnosing yourself, you are reducing decades of unimaginable personal suffering among untold individuals and families across the nation to equate to your quirks.
So please, do not diminish this blight on our country’s mental health record, or it stands to be forgotten. And I am sorry for the wake-up call.
If anyone knows your life, it is yourself, so when you know the diagnostic criteria, why wouldn’t you be qualified to self-diagnose?
As an anecdote: I have researched (among other conditions) ADHD and Autism so deeply, that I know probably more than the psychiatrics I had to do with about those (also probably not exactly ND behavior). Having all your behavior be confirmed by someone else is good anyway, but I don’t see a big issue with self-diagnosis when you’ve done your research (and took a few questionaires).
I was diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome when I was in grade school, after my little brother was diagnosed with Kanner’s syndrome. There was initial skepticism that my diagnosis may have been decided by my relation to my little brother, but that was dispelled after it was correlated with various unexplained psychobehavioral traits I’d exhibited growing up, and the presence of a shared birth mark that suggests a contributing genetic factor. There’s speculation around what caused this genetic factor, but it’s potentially linked with both parents’ military service.
Today, I typically don’t bother to tell people about my diagnosis unless it ever comes up, because I think people view it as more significant than it is and I don’t want people to change the way they see me based solely on their misunderstanding of or prior experiences with ASD. Most people say they would never be able to tell and sometimes even have a hard time believing that I am on the spectrum. Which is good, because it means I’m being allowed to live a normal life likr I’ve always wanted instead of being seen as needing some assistance or handicap.
I would have much rather that I was never diagnosed, though my brother’s was entirely necessary. My life trajectory would have been significantly better across many dimensions. The knowledge of my diagnosis only ever hindered me throughout my childhood development stages. It might not be too much to say that it traumatized me. I spent the next decade building and refining a mask to hide behind, to shield myself and maintain full control over how my presence is perceived. And now I can’t take it off.
What’s worse is when I came to find that, as the old adage goes, we all wear masks of our own creation. The only thing making mine perhaps notably distinct is that it’s creation and refinement was feverishly dwelt over for almost two thirds of my life now. How I was perceived was always in the forefront of my mind, whether or not I had an actionable plan to change. Every word I spoke, every move I made, was either in an attempt to appear normal or hopeless abandon as I lost confidence in my ability to hide in plain sight. It damn near killed me.
For the very reason of this life experience I have expounded here before you today, I do not respect or encourage any element of self-diagnoses that could lead an individual to suffer the torments I did. And before you say anything about resources – if you are Asperger’s, odds are they won’t be enough and many of them are unnecessary concessions that will hinder you.
Well I guess it quite depends on your view towards a diagnosis of ASD. For some it can be relief to understand themselves and for some like your case it may weigh you down. The motive of that knowledge and functioning in NT society is important on whether a diagnosis really helps I guess.
I have not yet taken a formal diagnosis because I don’t really see a benefit for me (I have an ADHD one though, but I don’t think it explains the whole story), and as you already mentioned masking is a thing and it seems to get “easier” further in life as you learn to mask better.
For others it may be beneficial. I don’t think you should project your experience onto others, just because it wasn’t good for you.
After all a diagnosis should help you function better in society and understand yourself better. It shouldn’t weigh you down (sorry if that’s your experience).
After having read too many articles about all of that stuff, it’s after all labels for strong and strongly correlating as I like it to call personality traits (or “conditions”). So yeah, if the label (i.e. diagnosis) helps you, good for you. But if you function well enough in society without additional help, sure you probably don’t really need a formal diagnosis, but I don’t see a reason why you shouldn’t self-diagnose, when you’ve done your research, and you want some explanation for your behavior.
Although that “feels” reasonable, I wonder whether we have actual numbers on this.
If we do, I’d be intensely interested to see them. But something tells me this is one of those experiments where data collection and validation presents challenges.
I love Jeremy Andrew Davis’s video on this topic:
https://youtu.be/IBu1R_CtNQM
Thanks for sharing this! I’m saving a copy to show others.
My autism was missed and I went undiagnosed for about 30 years. I think there are a lot of people that were diagnosed at a younger age that don’t understand just how expensive and difficult it can be to get diagnosed as an adult. Luckily, I still have a living parent or they wouldn’t have done the evaluation at all. It took months and that’s if you don’t count the 10+ years that I requested the evaluation. Several therapists had to comment to push my insurance company to even consider it. I tried to go around my insurance at one point and just pay the thousands it would have cost but had trouble finding anyone local and competent that wanted to diagnose an adult.
It’s not as simple as “call the doctor and ask” for a lot of adults. There are so many barriers and some you can’t do anything about.
please see my other comment from a bit ago for my reasoning here