The most frustrating thing about things like this is how seemingly most people dont learn.
Like getting suckered or being wrong once, fine, maybe. But I feel like people just double down instead of dealing with the mildly uncomfortable moment of admitting fault.
Not only not admitting fault but somehow making it the fault of the very people that told them exactly what would happen.
Don’t put your hand in the fire, johnny, it’ll hurt. johnny stares you in the eye as he puts his hand defiantly into the fire Ooooow, it burns! Why did you make it burn me?!?
You push Johnny into the fire.
Worse: a generation can learn and then forget. Boomers learned first hand how bad war was when they were being sent off as bullet sponges to Vietnam, Cambodia, and Korea. They conveniently forgot all of it when it came time for their kids to go.
I just finished reading Harry Potter 4, goblet of fire to my kid. The last chapter, despite all the evidence and good people telling him Voldemort has returned and (spoiler after 20 years?) killed Cedric, etc. the minister of magic, Fudge, struggles mightily against their statements and eventually, instead of admitting the truth and accepting what he must do, decides to make enemies of those who wield the truth to shelter himself from the discomfort, fear and pain and decides to pretend Voldemort isn’t real. It’s a pivotal moment in the series and one that sets the tone for the rest of the books, the very adult/political/media battles of the mind, perceptions, and propaganda…by a leader who was a good person overall I think but couldn’t face the music.
I was explaining to my kid that sometimes people just want to avoid reality, and when they are in important roles, it can be devastating. I also told her all people have the same instinct, to avoid conflict, pain and discomfort, but that by learning to go through it you realize it’s far better than the alternatives.
sometimes people just want to avoid reality
This is what I have accepted in the last 5 or so years. No matter how much information I can provide about climate change, people just brush it off like it doesn’t matter.
It’s a defense mechanism. When you think about the amount of things they would have to learn and change their mind on, and then weigh those against “do whats easy”, it’s not surprising people change their minds less as they age.
Fudge specifically says how terrible it would be to upset the order and calm that has been built in Voldemorts absence. Keeping his safe place is his priority.
admitting fault
I have a working hypothesis that the dumber and more insecure you are, the less likely you are to admit that ‘I was wrrrr’… …that ‘I made a misttt’…
You see?
Anecdotal, but the evidence so far is persuasive.
They care more about being sure than being right.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice…ehh…well, can’t be fooled again!
Hmmm, is this just human nature at work? Is it a function of the conservative mind like it’s never their fault?
Actually… yes, it literally is. They focus on what is effective, and if the pushy behavior works for them to get what they want, they do it. And it does. So they do.
They’ll keep doing it as long as supposedly good people fail to stand up to them.
Guarantee most that pipe off so much would grumble and huff off if they were laughed at and told to fuck off. At least unless they were there to do something, like protest a children’s book reading.
I think many conservatives are “good” (to the extent that any of us are, really), kind-hearted people. The movement itself is not, but the people who believe in it tend to fall for certain types of errors, e.g. being gullible.
Though many are not that way, and liberals also tend to fall for different types of errors, ironically also being gullible if we think our leaders give a damn.
The important thing is that our overlords want to keep us at each other’s throats, as if it is two parts of the common man that are fighting against one another, when really it is the wealthy who regardless of which side wins the election, swoopes in to buy the political players and get their own interests, at the expense of the common man.:-(
When does a good gullible idiot listening to violent propaganda become not good?
Because they’re ALREADY hurting people. A lot of people.
There is a fascinating video series on YouTube by Innuendo Studios called The Alt-Right Playbook that explains far better than I what I am attempting to convey.
Basically, it is not nearly as simple as that - yes there are elements of the conservative movement that use violent propaganda, but often it “hides” its true intentions well, and instead merely talks about the love, peace, and saving little babies aspects. Once you get drawn into those, the layers of the onion begin to peel back, and you get drawn in deeper, and deeper still, but at first, it is important to note that they have candy-coated “nice” versions as well. This makes it far more dangerous than it would be otherwise, if it were instead just straight-up Nazi propaganda visible to everyone from the start.
And yes, “collaborators” hurt people, arguably more so than full-on true believers, if only b/c there are so very many more of the former compared to the latter. Please note that I did put the word “good” in double-quotes, thereby calling into question whether it could fully apply - and yes I realize I am being inconsistent in that, b/c I also put the word “collaborators” that way too, that time more for the different reason of emphasis, but hopefully this deeper explanation helps to clarify. i.e. intentions matter, for some things. e.g. these self-described “good” people may not deserve to be killed for their involvement in their crimes, though neither should they be allowed to retain a leadership position, especially over & above those of us who… you know, actually read books & know stuff. This is why I did not put the word kind-hearted in double-quotes, in the sentence overall of “many conservatives are… kind-hearted people”, b/c that one I truly do believe in. i.e., kind-hearted, not necessarily clear-thinking, as those are entirely disjunct concepts.
As is often the case, Truth is somewhere in-between the extremes. They can be “good” as in kind-hearted people, yet “bad” at fulfilling a leadership role, at the same time. And they can also be gullible, as too can liberals - we should all strive to not fall into those, or any, traps imho.
I am aware of how manipulation of morons works.
My question was when do you consider dangerous useful idiots as actually dangerous?
Simple: when someone decides to put them in charge. Before then, they are simply “folk”, and since intelligence is to a large degree domain-specific (in contrast to attitudes such as wisdom, the willingness to learn from mistakes, either made by oneself or others), someone could be perfectly happy, willing, and capable of e.g. oh let’s say running a farm, or doing a minimum wage job such as working at a fast-food restaurant. But that does not necessarily translate well into “citizenship” i.e. voting (+ other things too, but that is the main, minimum-entry one), which requires a level of education in the complex matters of economic policy, foreign affairs, or hrm… I dunno, maybe starting with the ability to simply name the 3 main branches of government?
It is dangerous for them to vote yes, but they do not know that. Would you ask your dog to fly? Or your car to “do more with less” as in go a greater distance with less gasoline?
i.e., don’t hate the playa, especially instead of working to change the game.
The right wing the world over is in for a lot of this. Like shitting the bed and then just rolling around in it and going “no i didn’t”
They never will admit they were wrong. It’s like climate change. We’ve been saying we need to do something since the 70s and they’ve been denying reality since.
Now we’re on to the “it’s too late to do anything” stage of conservative thinking.
- That’s not real
- It’s real but it’s not our fault
- It’s real and it’s too late so stop talking about it
There are still Brexiteers won’t admit they were wrong and doubles down, calling Remainers as Remoaners, in spite of recent surveys stating 56% of British now would not want leave but return instead. Of course, why wouldn’t the Brexiteers admit it? They don’t want to hurt their own ego by admitting errors. They’d rather hurt the national ego instead.
Only 56%?
Yeah that sounds like a 7% raise since the brexit vote, I would have guessed that far more people would have changed their minds since then
Yeah I’m not even gonna take note until it’s like >80%.
Brexiters are always annoyed.
It’s not by chance that the word “Gammon” became a common way to describe them (because of the color of that kind of ham is a pretty good match for the color of the furious-face on a pale white old man or woman)
Let’s face it we’re a bunch of apes, a few are intelligent and functioning, and it’s a miracle anything works at all.
At least that makes me feel better because it just makes me happy when anything works at all.
Okay but we need to do better or literally everyone dies to climate change, right? So…
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Yeah. Yeah I figured.
Let’s see what happens
Yes. Let’s wait and see until theres no options left!
FYI I’m quite active in that arena personally. I just meant in a big picture way like let’s see if humans get through this filter.
We need to free ourselves from some of the classes who will absolutely not be making it through any filters, if we want to do that, and I don’t think shitty Jeff is going to settle for ‘aging beach himbo who can run the fuck out of a spreadsheet and power game your tabletop group to ruin’
Exactly. No point in worrying if there’s nothing we can do about it anyway!
And this doesn’t count as suicide, becausebim pretending its not happening! Its perfect!
The sad thing is that we won’t just die to climate change, but everything becomes way more hellish than it already is, to the point where we’d wish we had just died…
Yeah it won’t be the gentle 20th century ‘sirens and then two hours later everyone suddenly stops existing’ apocalypse. It will be brutal and horrible and show us the worst we can be. Everybody with die-by thousands, by dozens, one by one.
But, like, can’t stop line go up, so…
Is that what you want? cause that’s what’ll happen
As if they were even paying attention to anything beyond their sphere of bigotry.
Their British they’re not the smartest bunch, make great motorcycles though!
My dad had a Royal Enfield back in the 60s. He said it had the worst electrical system he ever had to deal with.
I don’t think any motorcycle had a decent electrical system back then.
In a country that has as much rain as England, your motorcycles should probably be capable of not shorting out when it rains.
Fun fact: Royal Enfield is now an Indian company. They even have their cult of fanboys here. They consider these bikes are to be a symbol of manliness.
The British Brexiters are not as stupid at Contemporary American Republicans, but they do come close.
as a brit, I think back on all the people I grew up with, my home town, people I knew and I truly believe in my heart of hearts that there are some dumb motherfuckers out there in ol Blighty
At least half of everyone is below average. The problem is that the bell curve is flattening and the stupid people are able to network and create their own little groups. They become unaware of their own ignorance because they keep getting positive feedback to fuel their negativity.
We all gave to be aware of this and not let it happen to us. The old saying, “keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out”.
At least half of everyone is below
averagethe median.Thankyou, you are correct.
Average is an ambiguous term; mean, modal or median is much more precise. Unfortunately, those who are at or below the median are ignorant of the distinction.
It is however, a term that a Brexiter can understand.
I think of them atleast as stupid but not more.
Eh. They just have farther to go.
We have a normal mix.
Brexit was one of the first times that the idiots moved in both force and sync however. It didn’t help that most of our media has been captured by right leaning rich gits. We are still reeling from the fall of the independent BBC.
*They’re
