So I thought I had figured myself till now. But I was clearly wrong…
So the last few days have been incredibly confusing as I reflected on my gender identity. I’m definitely a boy, that’s for sure. I wouldn’t want to go by any pronouns except he/him. The they/she stuff simply isn’t me.
I don’t want to dress up in a feminine manner (I don’t think I would be comfortable in skirts and thigh highs and what not…). Like… I haven’t tried that yet, but I really doubt I would be much interested in it. I like my current wardrobe.
HOWEVER, I want a feminine-ish body. Like… not boobs or anything. I find boobs quite repulsive. BUT I would definitely love to have a more feminine butt/dick. I like tucking, WHILE loving my dick.
I hate body hair/facial hair. The only place that I like hair on is my head. And while my hair is long-ish, it isn’t girl-like long. Like… the intention is not to look like a girl.
I dunno, it’s weird I suppose… Here’s one way to put it. If estrogen didn’t give me boobs, I would LOVE to take it. I would love to have a higher voice, better head-hair, and a girlier butt and dick. BUT I would still identify as a male while being in male-like clothes.
What the hell am I? I’m definitely not trans. I don’t think I’m a femboy, as I would hate doing makeup/wearing skirts n stuff. I’m so confused.
Oh, and I’m gay if that’s relevant.
Sounds like you’re a regular person with thoughts and preferences for how your body looks, like all people. Don’t think it’s about being trans, sorry to disappoint. Just my 2 cents though.
Oh yeah, I’m definitely not trans for sure. About the rest, I dunno… Like… Do my male friends think stuff like this too?
Some might, others don’t. The important thing is that with the billions of people on the planet there are plenty of other people who do.
You are not alone.
Yeah, but is there a name for ppl like myself? The nbs have their communities, the trans ppl have their communities. What community do I join to explore this more? This is why I am interested in seeing if there is a category in which I belong so that information about this can be formalised a little more.
This might be terminally Gen-X of me and Dan, but I’ll paraphrase what he said in Savage Love several years ago: It’s unwieldy to slice&dice gender and sexual expression into ever-smaller, narrower categories. Not every permutation needs a name and a flag. We can just be cis-men with non-stereotypical behavior or aesthetic preferences.
Yea I suppose so. But if I want non-booby growing estrogen, do I still qualify as cis? That’s the problem with me rn. I was unable to figure this out, which is where ppl here (mainly knightly@pawb.social) helped me with. I think I might be some sort of nb. I’ll definitely need to look into it a lot more to be sure ofc.
But if I want non-booby growing estrogen, do I still qualify as cis?
When it comes to language, I prefer to avoid prescribing strict rules in favor of descriptive analysis. Labels get all fuzzy at the margins, so the answer to your question probably tells you more about the person answering it than it does about yourself.
To be clear, I don’t see any conflict in a dude who takes non-booby-growing-estrogen identifying as a cis guy. I’d understand such a declaration to imply that the man making it has a wider view of cisgenderedness than most folks, which is also totally valid. Heck, I see my moustache as a feminine affectation even though it gets me “Sir”'d a lot. XD
I’ll definitely need to look into it a lot more to be sure ofc.
Take your time! I figured myself out at age 11 back in the 90’s, but it was a few years until I was certain of it and a few more years after that before I found the nonbinary label. I still don’t have a term for myself that feels specific, but finding yourself can be a lifelong journey and I’m proud to have helped you take one of those steps. 😸
First, finding a group can be a way to discover more about yourself and I don’t want to discourage you from doing so.
That said, I don’t know because I can’t keep up the groups and also think that people tend to look to groups to ‘fill in the blanks’ about themselves instead of using the group to help feel more comfortable about themselves. Seeking out a category to belong to sounds a bit like trying to find a group that will tell you who you are instead of looking for a place where you can be more comfortable being yourself.
You can always try a larger group/community that sounds close enough and is accepting, because it is possible that there is no group that is exactly what you are looking for or if it does it can be really hard to find. Non-binary seems like it could be a great starting point because not conforming to gender stereotypes covers a lot of different possibilities. Non-binary people doesn’t mean they don’t dress and act like binary people, just that they don’t accept that everyone must be binary.
Non-binary people doesn’t mean they don’t dress and act like binary people, just that they don’t accept that everyone must be binary.
Woah I didn’t know this abt the nb community.
There was another nb person in the comments who were similar to me in this context. I would definitely be checking out the nb community.
You should!
While supporting friends that came out, I found out that I am a straight hetero dude who is not intereested in being feminine, but I also have no aversion to stereotypically feminine things. I am also not sexually attracted to men, but am also confortable saying some guy is attractive and feel flattered when a guy gives a compliment or assumes I am gay because of being comfortable in non-hetero settings.
I know these things because of either experience or having the opportunity and turning it down because it wasn’t for me.
That said, I still have a ton of preferences that reduce the number of women down to a small percentage of the population that include a combination of looks and personality. Having preferences is such a wide possibility of things that seeing sexualities based on what sounds like preferences seems oddly limiting to me. I do get that people who feel that they don’t fit in will find a benefit from a supportive comminity of similar people that help them know that they should be comfortable being themselves and they do not need to conform to other people’s expectations.
I hope you find the support you are looking for and that you discover more about yourself. You are not alone and everything in your post is perfectly normal.
Thank you so much for this! Sometimes it’s rlly good to be reminded that one is not alone. I’m so sure you must be an amazing person to have as a friend irl!
I think a lot of people have desires for their body that they don’t meet. I certainly do.
But as far as your post: sounds like you’re a cis gay dude and you’re pretty certain about that. That’s about as many labels as you’re probably going to strictly need for most interactions. Though I can’t speak to the gay community as far as labels go.
You also don’t necessarily have to use the femboy label or dress differently to be more feminine in a way you want to. Hope that helps.
Perhaps… I just met a nb person in the comments who seemed to have a similar-ish experience. They go by all pronouns. I didn’t know you could do that while being nb!!!
I think I relate with their experience a lot more. Welp, I know what I’ll be reading about the next few days! Let’s see what comes out of it I suppose
Idk wtf a “girlie dick” is.
Smooth, small, doesn’t get that hard.
Purpose - More leaky while being fucked rather than getting hard to fuck.
I get ya, I’m lucky to have experience with a spectrum of dick and girlie dick is very different (and wonderful!)
I wouldn’t know, but I hear that cis guys are generally uncomfortable with being feminine.
Cis guys are taught to be uncomfortable with feminine things.
Glam rock is a blatant example that men can be feminine and over the top masculine at the same time.
But I’m not uncomfortable having “feminine mannerisms”. Like… I’m just not a girl.
That’s totally valid!
I’m also not a girl, and for a long time I didn’t pursue hormone therapy because it seemed like something reserved for trans girls. But I also knew I was more guy-ish than a guy and figured I’d just have to put up with my dysphoria until research on HRT for enbies started showing up a few years ago.
Anyways, labels are more like guidelines than rules when it comes to human sexuality and gender. There’s nothing wrong with being a feminine cis guy no matter who tries to tell you that’s contradictory. There’s also a lot of sub-labels under the nonbinary umbrella, perhaps something like Mascandrogyne would fit?
Hmm, I would be following this very closely now (the SERM stuff)… What a dream it would be to have a body like the one I want!
perhaps something like Mascandrogyne would fit?
If I identify as androgynous, I think this would be it!
You might be non-binary, keep in mind you can still use he/him while being non-binary. Gender has no rules, be whoever you want and use whatever pronouns feel best.
Wow, I wasn’t aware of this!!! That sounds liberating honestly… I’m definitely gonna be exploring what being nb means now…
Generally we use Enby or Non-binary since NB is used to mean Non-Black which is more of a POC thing.
But there’s no harm in a little self exploration. Non-binary is generally under the trans umbrella since the general meaning of trans has to do with not feeling like body and gender are aligned. Agender for instance is still not aligned with the physical sex of a person so someone who hold that they have no gender, fluid gender or multiple genders are still trans… but there are people in our communities who feel like the word trans doesn’t resonate and they identify as non-trans non-binary. Sometimes the more loose term “genderqueer” is applied to mean this type of the middle ground. There’s a flag and everything.
Btw the whole voice thing has more to do with vocal training than estrogen. Estrogen doesn’t actually change your voice. If you want to get started “Voice Feminization training” is where to start. https://youtu.be/BfCS01MkbIY?si=cs_FxCA13ZwkNoNI Hairless faces are also not an estrogen thing. That is usually achieved via electrolysis or laser hair removal… It takes a while to achieve but the hair lightens by degrees.
There are also cosmetic surgeries to enhance certain features without relying on horomones to do the job for you. These things are generally stigmatized by wider society but it is an option for a more targeted transition.
Estrogen will change your metabolism and fat distribution to be more in line with phenotypic female presentation but looking beyond sex as a binary you start seeing that there are plenty of phenotypic female folk out there without big butts, belly folds or boobs. Genderqueerness is all about mix and match, doing what you want. The tech is there for everyone who wants it.
Bro, you’re uraniumblazer. You don’t need a label to be yourself.
How do you feel about just being queer? More and more it’s becoming an ambiguous term for people that don’t clearly fit into any other category. It would give you the freedom to define yourself however you want without worrying about ‘fitting in.’
The other option is to kinda just makeup your own term. Obviously that will make it hard to find others exactly like you but I don’t think that is strictly necessary. I think you could relate to a lot of different identities within the LGBT community.
Ultimately though, I think people tend to focus too much on labeling and grouping themselves. Who cares what ‘label’ you have, just focus on what makes you feel like you. To quote Schitts Creek, ‘Like the wine, not the label.’
Very true!
But there are also benefits that come from having a label, like being able to find community or role models in the folks who share it.
I’m still searching for something more specific than “nonbinary” which fits well. “Androgyne” is the closest I’ve got, but it was enough to lead me to tittyboy chatrooms where I met another trans amab enby like me for the first time.
No matter how weird we might be, there’s always similar folks out there we can relate to. Finding one’s tribe can grant a feeling of belonging that is in desperately short supply for unusual folks. 😺
You’re based
Ik!!! ;)
I’m in a very similar boat, OP. It sounds like you’re genderqueer to me.
You just sound non binary/androgynous to me.
Not non binary for sure. I wouldn’t wanna be referred to as they/them. I’m cool with being male.
I’m definitely not both male and female. I’m not “in between” either. I’m comfortable being a boy. I want to dress male-ish. I want to keep my male parts. I want them to be feminine though. Uggh fkin hell… See what I mean? I just sound like a dumass lol
No worries, gender is confusing enough as it is and the terminology to describe it is still evolving!. 😸
I hope you can figure it out soon! 💜
Hehe me too <3
Honestly as I read this I was thinking “this is someone who knows what they like” then I got to the end and you asked what the hell am I and I thought “wait I thought they just explained that…”
If you wanna label all that ‘femboy’ then do it! If you wanna present more fem and not call it that that’s equally fine. Honestly you sound like you’re worrying yourself over feeling like you need a term to define yourself - you don’t.
Idk, from my perspective you sound like you know exactly what you want. If someone needs you to define yourself just tell them I’m a gay guy who likes to look fem. Good enough, imho.
I bet that you could exercise your way into your dream butt if you put the sweat and time into it. You can remove body hair with laser and electrolysis (though it’s expensive). And if you want a more feminine voice and you’ve been through male puberty, practice and intentionally speaking in a higher register isn’t technically the only option but it may as well be. (Currently learning this with my SO who is mtf)
Honestly do you have a therapist or the ability to see one? Might be worth talking through all this with a professional that you trust.
No, it’s not like I need to define myself for anyone. It’s just that a similar term would help me find people’s experiences similar to mine. Cuz whenever I look up femboy stuff, it’s just girly clothing, makeup and workout. I don’t relate to the clothing and makeup in any way whatsoever.
I have an okay butt, but it’s just muscle-ey. Like… It’s a manly butt? The butt in my head is more fatty, which is a result of fat distribution controlled by estrogen.
The point is, while I may not perfectly fit in any category (assuming that there are strict definitions, which isn’t true), it would be better if I could see what people similar to me are like. Rn, I can’t see people similar to me in this context.
Oh n for the therapist, the answer is nope, cuz no money.
Ahh I get ya. Yeah I’m just a boring token cis guy so I’m not gonna be much help in terms of community - I’d say maybe hang in these circles and engage with what you want to engage with? If you’re not into the girly stuff just respect that others do and they’ll probably respect that you don’t
Seriously though, if you’re able to see a therapist I’d highly recommend it - even if it’s not for lgbtq stuff, talking through your worries with a person who’s trained to guide people through such conversations is super valuable imho.
I know it’s expense as frig but if you ever get the opportunity jump at it.
There’s only so far labels can take you. Each aspect of gender is it’s own spectrum. Some aspects of gender can fall completely towards the male side, others can fall completely towards the female side. Understanding yourself means understanding all those different parts, and labels are just a way to summarize to make it convenient to share with others.
First off, you’re valid!
And more seriously, as others have mentioned, you may be nonbinary!
There’s no official definition for any of this shit. It’s all made up and everyone has different answers. I hope you find peace with it!
It does sound like you might be a femboy, not all femboys are into fem clothes but you could also be Nonbinary, there are NonBinaries who still use he/him.
You might be nonbinary!
Seriously, I’m enby and I’ve been on hormone therapy for 8 months, and your description is just a few degrees manlier than myself.
I use any pronouns and have a girly butt and itty bitty titties, but I’ve also got a fancy moustache, short hair, and a wardrobe that’s mostly jeans and t-shirts. The only makeup I wear is nail polish and the occasional bit of eyeliner. You can totally be nonbinary or a gender-nonconforming guy and still keep the masculine aspects of your presentation, there’s no rule against that! 😄
IIRC, they’re even testing out some new forms of hormone therapy that can give you soft skin, fairer hair, and a girly butt without growing your tits, but you’d still need to do voice training since hormones don’t raise your register.
fancy moustache
I’ve no idea, but you’re just this in my head canon now.
a girly butt without growing your tits
WHAT!!! That’s amazing! I should read about this more.
But hey, thanks so much for the comment! Perhaps I should research more about being non binary. This was really helpful! You’re amazing <3
fancy moustache
I’ve no idea, but you’re just this in my head canon now.
Lol, more villainous than French, but yeah. XD
a girly butt without growing your tits
WHAT!!! That’s amazing! I should read about this more.
Yeah! I came across this study when I was doing my pre-HRT research. They’re called Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators or SERMs.
You’re amazing <3
No, you! XD
WOAH THAT’S A COOL MOUSTACHE!
Yeah! I came across this study when I was doing my pre-HRT research. They’re called Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators or SERMs.
Seems quite promising! From what I understood, the stuff adds up theoretically and has been in use for cis women already. It’s just that experimental evidence doesn’t exist for the nb folk for this specific purpose. Considering this, I’m hopeful for something to come up in the next five years ig!
No, you! XD
Goddamn pawb.social furries… Always so cute…
Hehee, thank you so much!
Do let us know how your gender journey goes! I’d never have had the courage to start on hormone therapy if I hadn’t stumbled across other amab enbies who blazed the trail before me, and I’m genuinely chuffed to help others find themselves in or adjacent to my rare little corner of genderspace. 😸
Hehe absolutely!!! <333
You are you, and only you can say who that is, because gender is altogether just a collection of recognizable brands that are each subject to change from time to time and place to place.
You can wear one of these brands now if it suits you, and still change your mind later if you feel like it, or confound the branding entirely by arranging your own style. It really is up to you.
What’s the significance in defining yourself this way? Why do you need to create a (pointless?) category? I don’t see how this impacts your life.
Right now, I don’t have anyone to share this experience with. I know I’m not alone, but I can’t just find people like myself by repeating the post above over and over again, can I? That’s why categories exist, so that you can describe stuff in less words.
You described a regular person who, like all people, has mental and physical preferences, some masculine and some feminine. We are all like you. If you need a category to describe that I’d say person is fitting.
