• robocall@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    40
    arrow-down
    9
    ·
    8 months ago

    Why does the compromise guy have a hammer and sickle on him? Is it because these countries were formally part of the USSR?

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      119
      arrow-down
      24
      ·
      8 months ago

      There are online self-proclaimed leftists who simp for the totalitarian Soviet regime, and often for China as well. The slang term for them is ‘tankies’. Generally speaking, they’re the ones you see online spreading the “Ukraine has to compromise for Russia’s Legitimate Security Concerns!” The hammer-and-sickle is there to represent them.

      It’s very bizarre, considering that most leftists I know, even the ones I butt heads with, recognize that Putin’s Russia is an imperialist and fascist state. But no one has ever accused tankies of being consistent.

      • NotAtWork@startrek.website
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        55
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        8 months ago

        Don’t worry, some tankie will be along to correct you that Russia doesn’t meet the exact textbook definition of Fascism, so it is actually a utopia.

        • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          33
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          8 months ago

          My favorite incorrect definition for tankies is, they dont actually like communism, they just like tanks.

          They like “dictatorships of the proletariat,” and if they think that is given to them by Daddy Big Boots, then theyll simp for him hard as they can.

          Absolutely loving the pushback against their shit here on .world, it was getting bleak there for a minute…

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            26
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            8 months ago

            Yeah. Tankies in most places are absolutely inconsequential, but they’re very prominent on the Fediverse. It’s good to push back against the poisonous parts of their ideology (like ‘Imperialism is good if it’s a capitalist state that’s not part of the West doing it’).

            Would hate to see that kind of vile fascist shit normalized on here.

            • Eldritch@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              Yep, authoritarianism and imperialism is wrong left or right. The United States has a horrible track record on this front it’s true. But they’ll lose their shit when you state a simple fact like ML nations are generally just as bad. Russia basically invaded and forcefully annexed many nations post WWII. Tried to invade Afghanistan. Imprisoned and slaughtered millions in Siberian prisons to this very day even. All for simple dissent. Nivalny anyone? China isn’t really any better either.

              They usually break into a sputtering revelry of “But imperialists and the west did X”. Which you can easily tear apart with a simple “And?”. Because it doesn’t justify them doing it.

              • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                Id still argue that tankies and authoritarians of all kinds dont fit in in the left, but otherwise agreed.

                I want a society thats classless, cashless, stateless. Currency, billionaires, socioeconomic classes, dictators dont fit.

                • Eldritch@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Same here. It’s a long road. And unfortunately ml and tankies specifically have set us back on it quite a bit. But the evolution Karl Marx originally spoke about is absolutely worth continuing to pursue.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            17
            ·
            8 months ago

            Absolutely loving the pushback

            And it’s being replaced with liberalism - which is every bit as bad.

        • root_beer@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          “Fascism” is thrown around entirely too much as a term, when it’s just one variety of authoritarianism, which is the term we should be using

    • takeda@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      8 months ago

      Today were can clearly see that, communism was always a red herring. Tankies during cold war and tankies today (that love to dress in American flags), were always about supporting of totalitarian regimes.

      The hammer and sickle is to support USSR.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        38
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Tankie is a special sort of communist. Doesn’t seem fair to paint all communists as tankies.

        • magikmw@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          8 months ago

          Tankie is just facist wearing red instead of brown. Leave communism out of it.

      • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Nah communism is just naive people trying to enact collectivist policies wholesale not realising or not wanting to believe that such policies are incredibly open to subversion by authoritarian groups.

        • takeda@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          I was talking about tankies, whose definition says those are communists that were also fine with using tanks on population by Soviets during the Hungarian revolution.

          I’m trying to say those people weren’t as much in love with communism as with the love of the Soviets and this is much easier to see today since Russia isn’t communist.

    • alcoholicorn
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      74
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      OP thinks the west should continue to send weapons to Ukraine until Russia pulls out of all former Ukrainian territory, and putin is deposed and sent to the hague, and Russia is balkanized.

      Most communists want it to end as soon as possible, with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine currently occupied by Russia remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.

      This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        52
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Ah, so you were in favor of the initial peace plan proposed by Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion?

        with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining either independent or in Russia if they vote that way.

        … and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine? Is that not an option? Does democracy only count if it benefits Russian interests?

        This is usually misconstrued as supporting Russia.

        No, it’s simply recognizing the Motte-And-Bailey style arguments put forth by red fash. It’s the same pattern as the alt-right.

        • angrymouse@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          31
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          and what about the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine remaining part of Ukraine?

          This could be an option but what the cost? You all couch generals understand tha not only Russian ppl but Ukranians lifes are being destroyed?

          Do you undeestand that your option is to the deaths and war crimes keep on going right? Retaken these territories is almost free for you but not for Ucranians.

          Also, no Communist I know defends Putin, Russia is an imperialist scum as US, UK and France that are using Ukraine as their war table.

      • TooManyFoods@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        41
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        8 months ago

        You sound like a nazi supporter in 1939 supporting the annexation of the sudetenland. What do you mean the nazis should pull out of the formerly czech territories? I haven’t heard the russian government give any reason they should be there, that the nazis didn’t give.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        8 months ago

        with the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine

        Only if all the non-Russian speaking parts of Russia get to vote to leave Russia as well.