• bostonbananarama@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    it’s not a great approach in most cases

    Any cases.

    Do you think a death penalty for netanyahu unfair, in fact not giving a death penalty is unfair to all the children and women and everyone else he has killed

    Fair? What does fair mean? Does an execution un-kill the victims? What a ridiculous notion that any sort of punishment for a perpetrator could be “fair” for the victims.

    The death penalty is an abject failure. It has no benefits and numerous issues. Practicing barbarism can never be justice.

    • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It doesn’t unkill the victims but it definitely will make other people think twice before they do the same thing

      • bostonbananarama@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        it definitely will make other people think twice before they do the same thing

        There is absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.

        There is no proof that the death penalty deters criminals. According to the National Academy of Sciences, “Research on the deterrent effect of capital punishment is uninformative about whether capital punishment increases, decreases, or has no effect on homicide rates.”

        US Department of Justice

        • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I honestly don’t like to trust a country where you can get away for being a literal child rapist, but the above is just my opinion, we don’t even need evidence to know that the standard strawberry method of giving them merely some jailtime is not working either, but whatever, I am not a law expert

          • otp@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            I believe that most developed countries have gotten rid of the death penalty, and a big part of that is because it doesn’t work as a deterrent.

            Very few people decide whether or not to commit a crime based on the punishment. Most criminals think they won’t get caught at all, or if they do, they think they’ll get away with it in court.

            • FatCrab@lemmy.one
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              9 months ago

              This slightly misses the mark. The majority of crimes, including violent ones, are not committed by people performing a risk calculus. They’re done with minimal thought and more often than not in the heat of the moment. Effectively, they are not crimes that you can deter because for a crime to be deterred, the potential criminal has to assess whether it makes sense to commit the crime. This works in cases of like financial fraud and white collar crime. Someone shooting another person during an altercation, not so much.

              • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Yeah there’s a way to deter crimes and it’s increasing the certainty of punishment. Overly severe punishment actually has an unwanted effect of increasing the severity of crimes. If a rapist is going to die if caught that incentivizes murdering the victim who is inherently a witness.

                • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Rapists murder a lot of their victims anyway but this kinda makes sense, but it also kind of goes back to my point that the rape itself should be stopped by fear, everybody knows rape=bad, it’s just that people decide whether some jailtime is worth it or if they might be able to get away

                  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    No, they convince themselves it isn’t rape. Rape is a lot less dark alley and a lot more sober person and person too drunk to say no or pressuring or some other means of soft power. Look at studies which showed that if you don’t say the word rape a lot of admit they’re willing to do it.

                    So what you get from executing rapists is someone who raped their partner either in an emotional frenzy or a coercive stage gets accused or has a flash of realization and promptly gets violent lest they die.

                    Also, as a woman I’m a lot less likely to accuse someone of rape they actually did to me if I know it could lead to them hanging in the public square. Suddenly the weight of their life feels like it’s on my hands and I don’t want them dead.

              • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                Thanks here for this comment, I feel like I see where my stance might not make sense, ofc death penalty should not be given in cases like this where emotion takes over, I am rather taking about ppl like trump and gates and Netanyahu who are completely sane, they just kill for their own benefit

                Ppl here have assumed that just because I said ‘I see reason’ means I feel like you need to kill everyone who commits this, No, I am saying that I don’t know the exact circumstance, it might or might not be justified, I hope we can clear this up moving forward

            • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              That is my point, anyone who commits this should be always caught and be given the penalty, they should not be able to get away, no matter they are rich are poor

              • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                And what level of certainty do you need? Keep in mind uncertainty means innocents are murdered by the state and 100% certainty is difficult enough that it will generally put you into the anti capital punishment camp.

                Also it sounds like you have a failure of understanding how the rich get out of punishment. Yes sometimes it’s like Brock Turner where it’s blatant. But other times it’s because they can afford the means to hide evidence and sow doubts. And when all else fails they’re more likely to have ins with judges or the ability to flee preemptively.

          • bostonbananarama@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            we don’t even need evidence to know

            No matter what follows this…yes, we do. You should need evidence to believe anything; understanding of course that the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence needed.

            giving them merely some jailtime is not working either, but whatever

            Then imprison them for life. Guess what, life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty, and can be overturned if there’s an error.

            • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Anyone who has spend a week in jail knows that life imprisonment is much much worse than death penalty

              • FatCrab@lemmy.one
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                9 months ago

                Yes, we should also be addressing the failings of our penal system(s). Unfortunately, many around the world, and clearly yourself included, are more interested in retributive “justice” than habilitative functions.

                • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Lol one example would be a rehabilitation for many, you would save countless amount of money and lives as well and effort on jails because as i keep on saying people will think twice, why are they killing others in the first place? I also said that It should be up-to the judges, if someone is mentally ill, he should of course be offered rehab, but people who are completely sane and kill just to earn some money or whatever the hell they want should not enjoy the same leniency, lemmy loves to throw the word propaganda around but fails to acknowledge they might be a victim of it too, I maybe a victim as well, that’s why I always respect and try to understand other peoples opinions as well as long as they don’t force it on others, but never will you see me like ‘You are a murderous piece of shit’

      • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        That is the same thinking that those who own hand guns think. They think they will be safer, yet all the stats indicate other wise including all the children accidentally firing a gun and killing a family member. If risk of death was a deterrent, the USA would be among the safest place in the world.

        • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I am not saying anyone should be able to give a death penalty, the judges should be able to, not teens or children

            • fastandcurious@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I am not saying you should just order a public execution whenever you want, the judges should decide in which case it’s suitable, you won’t want to kill someone because they accidentally ran over someone, but for a child rapist?, make an example out of them, I am not saying everyone should have a say in whether this sort of punishment should be made or not, only judges with a lot of experience, unlike the america gun issue where anyone can just go up and buy a gun relatively easily