- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars
- cross-posted to:
- fuck_cars
Experts say Canada’s regulations around parking, which in many cases is free, contributes to Canada’s housing crisis. What can be done about it?
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If you aren’t going to give us walkable cities or really efficient public transit, then we need cars and therefore need the parking. There is no way in this or any world that I am hauling $300 worth of groceries to a bus stop, just to sit there and wait half an hour (at -20C) for a dilapidated bus that may or may not even run on time and has the risk of someone stealing some of those overpriced groceries on the 30 minute ride it would take to get home.
I live in Saskatchewan and it will very frequently get to -30 or below. I cannot ride a bike in that safely without risk of frost bite, so cycling is out of the question (at least in the winter). I drive as small of a car as I could buy, but even small cars are dwindling now in favor of the giant SUV’s and pickup trucks that seem to think they own both the road and the parking lots. The public transit in my city is so inefficient that it would take me an hour worth of riding the bus, and a transfer, just to get downtown. I can drive that in 10 minutes. Getting to the other side of the city? 90 minutes to 2 hours and multiple transfers. Or 15 to 20 minutes by car.
Our public transit and walk-ability needs to be remedied long before you start building over parking lots. Businesses with no parking will suffer a lack of business if there is no parking and no change to the current systems.
Your comment seems very “all or nothing”. No one’s talking about eliminating all parking everywhere tomorrow. However a large percentage of our parking is never used and this the problem is exacerbated by mandatory parking minimums as the article points out. From the article:
“We have a chicken and egg problem. The problem is we want dense development but development isn’t initially dense enough,” said Dawn Parker, a professor at the University of Waterloo’s School of Planning. “Retail activities, other activities, employment locations are so spread-out people still need to have a car.”
Plus, with our system of free parking, those in our society who can’t afford cars/aren’t able to drive are subsidizing you and me when we drive places. The cost of parking is split amongst all customers (in the case of private parking) or residents (in the case of municipal lots), even those who take public transit, walk, or bike.
I do want to comment on a few things you said:
There is no way in this or any world that I am hauling $300 worth of groceries to a bus stop, just to sit there and wait half an hour (at -20C) for a dilapidated bus that may or may not even run on time and has the risk of someone stealing some of those overpriced groceries on the 30 minute ride it would take to get home.
You probably buy $300 worth of groceries at a time because the store is inconvenient to get to (due to Euclidean Zoning and our general lack of density). I honestly do the same thing. However, when I lived in a denser city, I commuted by bike or bus and would grab groceries every day on my way home, and it added minimal time to my travel. I’m not arguing you should move or drastically change your life, but that the city should improve around you.
Similarly, all the problems with the bus are trivially solvable if we chose to invest in public transit instead of the ridiculous amount we spend on roads and car infrastructure.
I live in Saskatchewan and it will very frequently get to -30 or below. I cannot ride a bike in that safely without risk of frost bite, so cycling is out of the question (at least in the winter).
Ehhh . . . Oulu, Finland would disagree with this, as would I. I definitely feel less motivated to go out in the cold, but it’s possible with the correct infrastructure and clothing.
However a large percentage of our parking is never used and this the problem is exacerbated by mandatory parking minimums as the article points out.
I find “never” to be an exaggeration. The lots are used during the business hours of whatever business owns that lot. Does that mean there is a significant chunk of time where there is no one parked there? Sure, but it’s certainly not “never.” In Regina, I can’t think of a single parking lot I have ever seen that didn’t have at least SOMEONE parked there. Street parking is used quite frequently as well. Parking in the downtown core is a ridiculous race of “first come first served” because there literally isn’t enough parking downtown for all of the employees that work there.
Plus, with our system of free parking, those in our society who can’t afford cars/aren’t able to drive are subsidizing you and me when we drive places. The cost of parking is split amongst all customers (in the case of private parking) or residents (in the case of municipal lots), even those who take public transit, walk, or bike.
The downtown core of Regina (talked about in the article) is NOT free parking. At all. There is no free parking to be found in the downtown core at all (that isn’t like 3 spots reserved for particular business customers). Residential areas get basic street parking (not lots). There are very few “parking lots” in residential areas. The only free lots are outside major shopping centers that are outside the downtown core, and those often have spots reserved for customers of those shopping centers.
You probably buy $300 worth of groceries at a time because the store is inconvenient to get to (due to Euclidean Zoning and our general lack of density). I honestly do the same thing. However, when I lived in a denser city, I commuted by bike or bus and would grab groceries every day on my way home, and it added minimal time to my travel. I’m not arguing you should move or drastically change your life, but that the city should improve around you.
I buy $300 worth of groceries at a time because I work from home and any trips outside my house are specifically for errands, so groceries/errands become a dedicated trip because I don’t have an “on the way home from work” sort of schedule.
But yes, a big part of the issue is zoning. I live in a newer “high density” neighborhood. Large condo buildings, narrow streets, almost no on-street parking due to said narrow streets, I get one spot in my back alley for my small car (and I’m charged an extra $100 per month on my rent for it), and the grocery store is still a 30 minute walk/10 minute bike ride away. It could absolutely be made better with some better designed bus routes, better zoning designs, and some effort. Sadly most cities don’t seem interested in walkable cities or investing in public transit.
I would love to see more dedicated bike lanes (there are none in my neighborhood), short-haul bus routes specifically between the grocery stores and nearby residential areas to make hauling groceries home less of a chore, more sheltered bus stops to protect from both heat and cold, and less resistance to things like e-bikes and such that would make the trips less onerous. There’s still a big stigma in Regina regarding e-bikes and scooters for some reason despite their benefits.
I didn’t mean whole empty parking lots, I meant space that never get used. At most big-box/large grocery stores, I’d say probably 1/4 of the spots never get used. Another good percentage of them only get used on holidays/sale days.
I had a longer comment, but I realize I don’t need to explain these things to you, you’re already very well versed!
“We need tons of parking lots until we get walkable cities” gets things totally backwards. Walkable cities are impossible because of the stupid amount of parking lots we have.
The dilemma you pose of “parking vs walkable cities” isn’t even real: we massively overbuild parking lots so we can stand to get rid of most of them. I’ve been to SK many times. Strip mall parking lots are half empty even during the busiest times of day. It’s insane. You could build housing on tons of that land without ever causing parking lots to fill up.
Here in Vancouver, there are almost no strip mall parking lots and the absolute number of cars is higher than anywhere in SK, and yet, there’s STILL too much parking. There’s almost always parking within a block or two of any store outside of the downtown core. The distance you walk probably isn’t that different from across those huge parking lots.
Honestly, we can go on a massive parking diet and, because we overbuild parking so much, there won’t even be any downside for drivers.
There was some buzz about Durham Region (Ontario) becoming “15 minutes cities” but I’m not sure the legitimacy behind it because all I ever really saw were fliers by conspiracy nutjobs to fight against it because of how apparently bad the idea is…
First and foremost we need to send these people to their own little island where they can suffer from their own stupidity in isolation.
I don’t know why, but people saying it very regularly gets to - 30 really grinds my gears because we record the temperature, we know exactly how many days a year are like that. I think we have different ideas of ‘very frequently’, I’m curious how many days a year you think very frequently is.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cold-weather-snap-saskatchewan-1.4997353
Edit: Just FYI, I’m not griping at the rest of your comment at all, not really addressing it, it’s just that one thing.
Yup. I surprised myself when I pulled the last decade of data for my nearest Environment Canada weather station (Lucky Lake, SK). I don’t remember the number, but it was shockingly few days with a low colder than -30C. I was similarly surprised by the low number of days with a low colder than -20C.
Don’t forget Wind Chill. A -15C day in SK with a good wind is suddenly a -25C day.
Point taken, but I didn’t forget about it. I go hiking and tenting on the ice on Lake Diefenbaker, so I know all about it. I just didn’t know how to bring it in without lending yet more credence to all the myths and misconceptions.
There are a lot of differences between actual -25C with no wind and windchill of -25C. For example at -25 with no wind, my wool parka with a fairly open knit is perfect on its own for a wide range of activities. But with a windchill of -25, I’m better off with my fleece bunny hug under a windbreaker, then layering up with a tightly knit wool sweater when I’m inactive.
When I still biked, -15 with no wind quickly turned into -25 windchill, but if the windchill was already -25, hopping on the bike didn’t make a huge difference, so I dressed about the same in both cases.
You are failing to take into account wind chill. In SK, with our high winds, a -15C day can turn into a -25C day pretty easily. I am a big baby when it comes to the cold and I fully accept this. But when the wind chill puts things into “frost bite in 5 minutes” territory, I’m sorry, but I’m not riding my bike to the grocery store and risking frost bite on my fingers and nose. Nor do I want to stand at an outdoor bus stop waiting who knows how long for a bus. Now if zoning wasn’t so dumb and put my grocery store so far out of residential areas, it wouldn’t be so bad. But city planning is centered around having a car, sadly.
I didn’t tell you to ride your bike to the grocery store in - 30 weather, because that would be a very stupid thing to tell someone to do. I don’t know who you are arguing with. I’m saying that you likely don’t have very frequent days below - 30, and that this is information that can be looked up.
I do this because I usually see this idea, the frequency of days below 30, used as an escape valve against electric cars. The realty is though, that the cars work in that weather and that those days are rare, so I don’t like to let the frequency claim go unchallenged and speak up when I see it to help ensure people think critically about the claim when they see it.
Unchallenged claims become memes, which can be indistinguishable from truth for a lot of people.
Yet again, blame the people with no power to change a situation. Politicians are the cause of the housing crisis. Politicians are the reason we don’t have public transit or walkable cities.
The article is blaming politicians.
“Much of this has to do with “parking minimums” – or the requirement that developers must build a certain number of parking spaces for any new development.”
The article isn’t blaming the people physically parking a vehicle, but is blaming the policies that dictate the parking spaces.
Imma be real pedantic here and I apologize.
Politicians are people. In many cases specifically on the municipal level these are people who have day jobs because they get paid shit as a representative. Technically, people are to blame. People have the power to change the situation. The problem is people aren’t changing the situation.
Well, I mean, people vote in these politicians, and the politicians are the people.
If no one runs for office that wants to change things, the people who do want change should probably put up someone as an option to vote for.
If they don’t win, the people chose not too change
It’s only a politicians fault if they campaign on the promise to change and then don’t do it.
Had to double check if this was not a Beaverton article! Seriously? Of course is the parking lots… couldn’t possibly be investment companies sweeping billions in properties at any price, massive influx of people without affordable housing being build, or even this insane unbalance between the areas where the jobs are and the areas where the houses are, leading to massive commuting and parking needs… No, it has to be parking spaces! That is it!
Like a lot of complex problems, the housing issue has multiple contributing factors. The other issues you brought up definitely are valid, but that doesn’t invalidate the issues with parking and density. Most parking lots are way, way oversized.
Oh yeah? It’s our fault for parking our cars now?
Anyone getting really fucking sick of being gaslit by the rich?
Did you read the article? It mainly focused on parking minimums and density. It doesn’t matter whether or not individual people use those parking spaces, it’s a systemic issue!
No I didn’t, because of the bullshit clickbait title.
Yes, blame the title for your lack of interest in understanding what you responded to.
Just being honest, my dude.
I think you could use some self-reflection if you think that title is blaming individuals for driving. It seems like you’re primed to take offense.
Thank you for the psychoanalysis. You seem primed to jump to conclusions about other people. Have a nice day.
Cars are a problem caused by the rich
