I seriously cannot have any degree of nuanced conversation here.
Like I get it, we all know capitalism is bad, but it feels like every time I or anyone go towards discussing the steps that need to be taken to address current looming problems in the short term, someone has to jump in and shut it down with "capitalism bad >:[ " and tear down any idea presented because its not complete and total destruction of the current economic model.
The result just feels like an echo chamber where no actual solutions get presented other than someone posting whole ass dissertations on their 33-step (where 30/33 steps are about as vague as “we’ll just handle it”) plan to fully convert the world to an anarchist commune.
Edit: I still vastly prefer Lemmy and the fediverse and a whole, my complaint here is that many of you are TOO INTENSE. You blow up small scale discussion.
In fact they do believe that and you’re splitting hairs.
They believe that humans are inherently evil and can never be good enough (including themselves). Unless/until they accept Jesus and are washed by his blood in order to be made worthy.
You’re talking about inherent nature vs redeemed.
Source: 30 years in the church, 4 year degree from Christian university which includes comprehensive theology, and a 1 year internship with a fundie group that focused entirely on evangelical theology and ideology.
No, they aren’t worthy by the blood. The whole point Jesus died because they aren’t good enough. The blood redeems them, but we were never worthy of salvation.
What church were you in? Joel Osteen’s church? And what was your degree in? Because you are making a grave error already as you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. Christianity doesn’t preach that you can be worthy (Methodism has “Christian Perfection” but even then, sin was still committed) That’s why forgiveness and repentance are so important.
2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
Romans 3:10-12 As it is written: ‘There is no-one righteous, not even one; there is no-one who understands; there is no-one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no-one who does good, not even one.’
It’s right there in your quote
You even affirmed by argument in your second sentence
Christians believe that they become worthy through the blood of Jesus. It is not something they believe they do themselves (though you get into some really interesting contradictions when you start reading Romans and James where it talks about things like faith without works being dead, justified by works, must be baptized, etc., indicating that the sacrifice that Jesus made maybe wasn’t quite enough), but something that they believe is done to them. Then, once they’re redeemed, they’re a part of an exclusive group that knows the (open) secret to redemption that they were able to grasp while the rest of the sinful world hasn’t been able to figure it out.
I really thought I made it clear that I’m not talking about the process of salvation but the result of it, ‘being made worthy by the blood of Jesus’. If I didn’t, I hope I’m making it clear now. You’re focusing on the most elementary theological concept of salvation while I’m trying to point out something that’s just a tad deeper than the skin.
Being redeemed doesn’t make you worthy or superior. It means to be forgiven. They don’t have competence, as it’s only the Holy Spirit acting through them that can create competence. It literally just said “Not that we are competent in ourselves”
So it’s not a superiority complex. If anything you should humble yourself.