Live coverage thread of the International Court of Justice and the case of South Africa vs. Israel.
They didn’t really call for it to stop military action though. They called for it to stop doing things intended to be genocide; I predict that Israel will just disagree that it intends genocide, and keep on doing it.
Ruling that the Palestinians are a protected class under the Genocide conventions is pretty big though…
From the live thread:
"7m ago 07.43 EST International Court of Justice orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza Judge Donoghue says the court has decided that Israel must “take all measures within its its power” to prevent all acts within the scope of the genocide convention.
She adds that Israel must ensure “with immediate effect” that its forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention.
Israel must also take immediate measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Gaza."
and:
"14m ago 07.37 EST ICJ recognises right of Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide Judge Donoghue, speaking now at the ICJ, said at least some rights sought by South Africa in its genocide case against Israel’s war in Gaza are plausible. She said: “A link exists between the rights claimed by South Africa that the court has found plausible and at least some of the provisional measures requested.”
With the reading still ongoing, the court said it recognises the right of Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide. Palestinians appear to be a protected group under the genocide convention, the court said.
Friday’s ruling at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) does not deal with the core accusation of the case – whether genocide occurred – but will focus on the urgent intervention sought by South Africa."
Also, statements by Israel are pretty fucking damning IMO:
"20m ago 07.33 EST Judge Donoghue is detailing comments made by Israeli officials during the war, including:
Defence minister Yoav Gallant saying he had ordered “complete siege” of Gaza City”, and later said “we will eliminate everything” and that Israel was fighting “human animals”.
President Isaac Herzog saying, “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible”."
So is saying that we shouldn’t kill innocent humans ‘A big deal’
Was the world up till now thinking that Palestinians are not humans?
Are only Jews protected under the genocide convention?
What the fuck is going on?
So is saying that we shouldn’t kill innocent humans ‘A big deal’
I know you’re being sarcastic, but yeah. The situation is so dire that having someone at least come out and say “This is wrong” is a net improvement.
Israel argued that because Jews were affected by a genocide, Israel is therefore unable to commit it themselves.
Makes sense, pretty reasonable of Israel
The tl;dr is:
- Palestinians are protected under the genocide conventions.
- Israel needs to take steps to ensure genocide is not being committed.
- Israel needs to improve humanitarian aid to Gaza.
- Come back in a month.
“You’re committing genocide.”
“Okay, but did I intend to? :trollface:”
“stop committing hate crimes”
“Is it a hate crime if Im enjoying it?”
Expected and disappointing statement. This just backs the non-statement of saying Israel should “do what it can” to protect civilians. The simplest way to protect civilians is to order an immediate ceasefire. This will help Biden to continue supporting the genocidal campaign that Israel is conducting on the Palestinians, because nothing he says opposes the ICJ.
I’d add, I’m not happy with the “yeah, come back in a month” phrasing. Israel could see that as “Oh, so as long as we finish this in a month…?”
Yeah absolutely, since their wording is so vague there’s not really a bar that they would need to meet.
And at least one Israeli official’s response is patently offensive:
"12m ago 08.10 EST
Israel’s security minister responds to ICJ ruling by tweeting ‘Hague Shmague’
Itamar Ben-Gvir has responded to the ICJ ruling by tweeting: “Hague Shmague”.
The South African government said it welcomed the provisional measures the ICJ had ordered against Israel."
Israel is not genocidal, and this trial result supports that.
Ordering an immediate ceasefire would be the world binding Israel’s hands, preventing the nation from defending itself against Hamas before Israel achieves meaningful security goals.
The simplest way to protect civilians is for Hamas to return the hostages and immediately end the war, the next best way is to let Israel take out the terrorist government that keeps instigating violence and attacking theirs.
from defending itself against Hamas before Israel achieves meaningful security goals
Please explain to me, in what world “defending against Hamas” (which are islamist terrorists) and “achieving meaningful security goals” includes bombing a Greek Orthodox Christian church?
They always answer the same. It had Hamas in it. Or under it. Behind every dead child and woman is a member of Hamas. All 26,000 of them.
Israel is not genocidal
That is absolutely NOT the ruling of this court.
"Judge Donoghue says the court has decided that Israel must “take all measures within its its power” to prevent all acts within the scope of the genocide convention.
She adds that Israel must ensure “with immediate effect” that its forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention."
Since Israel is the only force attacking Palestinians, the order to prevent all acts under the genocide convention “with immediate effect” means that the court IS in fact recognizing Israel is committing genocidal acts against the Palestinian people and that they, and they alone, have the obligation to stop it.
If a court ordered you to “ensure you must with immediate effect dispose of any and all illegal drugs in your possession”. This doesn’t mean you have them, only that if you do you have to get rid of them.
The same applies here, they must make sure genocide isn’t happening, not stop their ongoing genocide.
Palestine is really winning hearts but not so much minds in the information side of this war.
When a court orders you to reverse an action, it’s a recognition that you are currently engaging in that action.
So when this court ruled “that its (Israels) forces do not commit any of the act in the genocide convention.”
They are stating that Israeli forces are, in fact, committing acts covered under the genocide convention.
If they weren’t, there would be no need for the court order.
Now, Israel’s defense could be that any genocidal action is the act of individual soldiers or units and is not official Israeli policy… I don’t BUY that, but it’s plausible deniability.
In this case, now, the court is saying Israel has an obligation to stop it regardless of who ordered it.
I don’t read it the same way you do.
I read it as in your way to school tomorrow make sure you don’t play in the road.
During your invasion of Palestine ensure you don’t commit any of the acts outlined here
The problem with that reading is we already know Israel is on the wrong side of the genocide convention (bolding mine):
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a. Killing members of the group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."Israel is already engaging in A, B, and C. So it’s not a matter of telling them to not do something they are currently not doing.
It’s a genocide.
Also do you really, truly believe they would stop if Hamas released all of the hostages today?
Honestly?
That was the deal Hamas offered them days ago - Netanyahu refused it.
The trial supports the opposite of what this comment is indicating. The role of the ICJ is to determine whether Israel’s alleged actions are capable of being covered by the Genocide Convention. Today they decided that this is indeed the case and the measures they announced, as meager as they are, are legally binding. A final decision will be probably only made in a couple of years.
The International Court of Justice rejects Israel’s bid to throw out the genocide case, calls for Israel to take steps to protect Palestinians in Gaza.
The ICJ also ordered Hamas to release the hostages being held in Gaza. There was no call by the court for Israel to end the war. The case will continue.
I mean, the ICJ is organized and maintained by the UN, so it makes sense that a “strong response” from them effectively amounts to hand-wringing.
Well it certainly isn’t what Israel wanted, which was for the ICJ to throw out the case and say “what, the Jews are doing genocide? Don’t be silly!”
But they didn’t say that which of course means they have an antisemetic bias.
Because of all these brain damaged fuckwits tying their cultural identity to a corrupt government.
Waiting for the inevitable “ICJ is the judicial arm of Hamas!” claims.
Just watched. Thanks for the post.
Lawfare, as usual, has a more in-depth article than any of the major news outlets. You can very much see the expertise on display in their work.
Expected but disappointing. As usual a vague ruling that can be interpreted in any way israel wants without any real demands. Not even forcing israel to let humanitarian aid in.
The court of “Justice” has become the court of Genocide.
I wonder how long it will take for Israel to file a countersuit against Palestine for their failure to prevent genocidal statements.
There’s plenty of room to have the ICJ force the UN to designate Hamas, PFLP, PIJ, Hezbollah, and others as genocidal terrorist organizations that cannot receive any UN funding or have their members employed by the UN. UNRWA would have to fire half their employees, but that’s not a bad thing.
There’s no doubt in my mind that Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc. etc. would, given half the chance, genocide Jews in Israel.
But I think part of genocide is having the power structure to actually accomplish that level of violence and they just aren’t capable of it. Individual ATROCITIES? Sure, that’s in their reach. Assassinating an entire people? They just don’t have that capability.
If you look at an American example… the Americans had the capability and desire to commit genocide against Native Americans.
The inverse? Massacres, sure, genocide? Not so much.
Except immediate access to the means isn’t actually part of it. They attempted to ethnically cleanse the area around Gaza, and publicly stated that one of their goals with the rocket fire was to empty the city of Ashkelon. They don’t get a pass because they failed to fully succeed.
