Are you talking about tiny changes or an entire economy? I don’t think it’s at all similar. What do you plan on doing with the owners you’ve taken property from?
Fuck if I know? I wasn’t even advocating for anything, I was just explaining that “no profit” doesn’t mean a business ceases to exist. An example of this is state owned enterprises, which don’t turn a profit but still add to the economy and provide value to society. They pay their employees, and things are fine.
In a nationalization scheme, you can either compensate the investors a fair value, or seize their assets. Emminent domain is typically more fair, although recently examples tend towards either buying a controlling share at bankruptcy prices, or seizing the business outright and leaving shareholders in the lurch.
My take would be that if we’re taking the business for the public good, we should pay a fair value for it, and if it’s to stabilize something important that it’s fine for investors to take the fall, since without stabilization they also would have lost their money.
Fuck if I know? I wasn’t even advocating for anything, I was just explaining that “no profit” doesn’t mean a business ceases to exist.
Fair enough.
I think you’d meet more resistance than you expect, and I’m not convinced the goals of government officials are as sane as we’d like.
My take would be that if we’re taking the business for the public good, we should pay a fair value for it, and if it’s to stabilize something important that it’s fine for investors to take the fall, since without stabilization they also would have lost their money.
If that value is market value, we’re kind of fucked.
To be clear, I don’t disagree with your initial assertion. Markets pay people that notice inefficiencies. I’m just not convinced there’s a better model.
I don’t know that there’s a better model either, but I’m very confident that we vastly overvalue investors in our current setup.
In an ideal society, I think workers would be compensated for the value they produce not the value they’ll accept, and that’s just incompatible with a society that structurally predisposed to value investment above labor.
I don’t think there’s a quick or easy path to get there, but in the meantime I’m aggressively unsympathetic to investor class woes.
In terms of nationalization for the common good, I’m generally referring to things like Amtrak or the TSA. There’s a fair value that can be assessed largely independently of any market value.
In an ideal society, I think workers would be compensated for the value they produce not the value they’ll accept, and that’s just incompatible with a society that structurally predisposed to value investment above labor.
How do you feel about compensation for shit like QA at peeps like boeing? Lots of us don’t ‘produce’ but we’re huge into it.
Are you talking about tiny changes or an entire economy? I don’t think it’s at all similar. What do you plan on doing with the owners you’ve taken property from?
Fuck if I know? I wasn’t even advocating for anything, I was just explaining that “no profit” doesn’t mean a business ceases to exist. An example of this is state owned enterprises, which don’t turn a profit but still add to the economy and provide value to society. They pay their employees, and things are fine.
In a nationalization scheme, you can either compensate the investors a fair value, or seize their assets. Emminent domain is typically more fair, although recently examples tend towards either buying a controlling share at bankruptcy prices, or seizing the business outright and leaving shareholders in the lurch.
My take would be that if we’re taking the business for the public good, we should pay a fair value for it, and if it’s to stabilize something important that it’s fine for investors to take the fall, since without stabilization they also would have lost their money.
Fair enough.
I think you’d meet more resistance than you expect, and I’m not convinced the goals of government officials are as sane as we’d like.
If that value is market value, we’re kind of fucked.
To be clear, I don’t disagree with your initial assertion. Markets pay people that notice inefficiencies. I’m just not convinced there’s a better model.
I don’t know that there’s a better model either, but I’m very confident that we vastly overvalue investors in our current setup.
In an ideal society, I think workers would be compensated for the value they produce not the value they’ll accept, and that’s just incompatible with a society that structurally predisposed to value investment above labor.
I don’t think there’s a quick or easy path to get there, but in the meantime I’m aggressively unsympathetic to investor class woes.
In terms of nationalization for the common good, I’m generally referring to things like Amtrak or the TSA. There’s a fair value that can be assessed largely independently of any market value.
In my ideal society we’d take care of each other.
Don’t use the TSA as a fucking model. Shit.
How do you feel about compensation for shit like QA at peeps like boeing? Lots of us don’t ‘produce’ but we’re huge into it.
I’m not pedantic about “production” being actual literal “fabrication”, but just a contrast to “rent seeking” or “investment”.
Fair enough. Thanks for the conversation.