Socialism is workers owning the means of production, which only exist to be owned by them if they were first built which won’t happen at any scale under Socialism since it shall be a shit show of “I get mine now and you get the next one which never gets made”. How many 3d printers you think are going to get made when it takes hundreds of man hours to make one and the majority of the folks working on it get nothing for their time?
And, yup, a farming coop is a Socialist structure operating a Capitalist venture. Works fine for such things at small scale manual production but instantly falls apart when you start needing to transport it. The freight company needs gasoline and doesn’t have the storage for your grain you want to trade in return for them shipping it to the tractor manufacturer.
Oh, I know, next you’ll say that you still have money or some other legal tender to represent the goods such that you don’t have to ship them to the folks making the tractor. So you’ll need to have banks to come in to handle the “trade slips” or whatever you call it to avoid calling it money. And you now have to have a Gov. to assure the banks don’t cheat everyone…
Guess what? That is how we got money and Capitalism in the first place. Oops, you’ve simply made Capitalism with more less efficient steps. Your “common definitions”(not in use by anyone any where) leave a lot of reality and history out of the consideration.
Wow. Only the first phrase of your first sentence was correct. Why do you think people would get nothing for their time? Worker co-ops are examples of Socialism, by your very own definition.
Capitalism isn’t banks and money, lmao. Capitalism is exclusively the economic model by which capital Owners pay non-owner workers wages to create commodities for sale, ie individual ownership of Capital instead of Worker Ownership.
The very fact that you have no clue what you’re actually talking about and keep spouting whatever pops into your head means you should probably reevaluate your positions and familiarize yourself with leftist theory before you pretend to know what leftists actually advocate for.
Socialism is workers owning the means of production, which only exist to be owned by them if they were first built which won’t happen at any scale under Socialism since it shall be a shit show of “I get mine now and you get the next one which never gets made”. How many 3d printers you think are going to get made when it takes hundreds of man hours to make one and the majority of the folks working on it get nothing for their time?
And, yup, a farming coop is a Socialist structure operating a Capitalist venture. Works fine for such things at small scale manual production but instantly falls apart when you start needing to transport it. The freight company needs gasoline and doesn’t have the storage for your grain you want to trade in return for them shipping it to the tractor manufacturer.
Oh, I know, next you’ll say that you still have money or some other legal tender to represent the goods such that you don’t have to ship them to the folks making the tractor. So you’ll need to have banks to come in to handle the “trade slips” or whatever you call it to avoid calling it money. And you now have to have a Gov. to assure the banks don’t cheat everyone…
Guess what? That is how we got money and Capitalism in the first place. Oops, you’ve simply made Capitalism with more less efficient steps. Your “common definitions”(not in use by anyone any where) leave a lot of reality and history out of the consideration.
Wow. Only the first phrase of your first sentence was correct. Why do you think people would get nothing for their time? Worker co-ops are examples of Socialism, by your very own definition.
Capitalism isn’t banks and money, lmao. Capitalism is exclusively the economic model by which capital Owners pay non-owner workers wages to create commodities for sale, ie individual ownership of Capital instead of Worker Ownership.
The very fact that you have no clue what you’re actually talking about and keep spouting whatever pops into your head means you should probably reevaluate your positions and familiarize yourself with leftist theory before you pretend to know what leftists actually advocate for.