Very fitting headline in a day and age where I’m constantly seeing people advocating for giving trump the Whitehouse and finishing the country off because anything less would be SuPpOrTiNg GeNoCiDe. As if the move to help Palestinians would be to elect Trump. These people are very stupid children, bots, or Russian paid actors. Impossible to know which.
Russian paid actors.
I got into that exact argument about Biden. Eventually I called the person a Putin puppet and got my post deleted by a Lemmy.world mod.
So, you got into an argument, turned to insults, and moderation kicked in. Sounds like everything is working OK.
You’re exactly right, and you proved your own point with this comment thread. It’s really sad that people can’t be polite and think they have to resort to ad hominem crap.
Sounds overzealous to me. Wrapped up in that is the assumption that associating a person with Putin is said as just a way to hurt feelings, rather than a perhaps-assuming claim… before yesterday, it never once occurred to me that a mod would have an issue with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way. Might as well start banning people for telling each other they’re wrong.
Wrapped up in that is the assumption that associating a person with Putin is said as just a way to hurt feelings, rather than a perhaps-assuming claim… before yesterday, it never once occurred to me that a mod would have an issue with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way. Might as well start banning people for telling each other they’re wrong.
So, if I were to hit you with a claim of association that cannot be proven either way, but just so happens to conveniently dismiss anything you said, and anything you might say in response, you wouldn’t consider that a personal attack?
Fine by me: How much is Putin paying you to sow bad-faith arguments among non-republicans?
I am frequently hit with much worse “attacks” than this and I laugh at and ignore the vast majority of them. Even when someone’s particularly good at being personally insulting (this example is NOT) I rarely get hurt by it.
Ah, so you do, in fact, recognize it as an attack, a personally insulting one, with the intention “to hurt feelings”, and not a “perhaps-assuming claim” you present it when trying to justify not getting banned for being an asshole.
recognize it as an attack, a personally insulting one, with the intention “to hurt feelings”,
Precisely what I strongly dispute. It’s only an insult if you have no idea what an actual insult is.
trying to justify not getting banned for being an asshole.
Kinda ironic that you did not even read the conversation, and you get to call me an asshole in the same breath as telling me I was insulting, which again since you didn’t read the conversation you’re pulling that assumption straight from your rectum anyhow.
Annnnd I was banned from politics on lemmy.world. this is actually kind of messed up. I don’t think I said anything particularly offensive even. It seems like it was more about my message.
I was banned from all of . world for shit posting in a running group by saying I’m too fat to run. The group crossed my feed when I was sorting by all and I said it just for shits and giggles.
That got me banned but when I went on the discord and asked about this another mod came along and reversed it.
Wow. It’s so concerning.
The “automod” just removed 5 of my comments for complete bullshit reasons, but it honestly does seem like they did it in response to the exact same issue – I claimed someone is a russian actor. I’m now wondering who runs lemmy.world, and what exact agenda they have.
Despite it claiming “automod” there were human-written reasons, one of which was “Provide evidence of shilling or this is personal insult.”
You do realize I read Lemmy right?
No, they were reported multiple times, and I removed them by hand, no bots were involved.
Like I said in the modlog, if you have actual evidence of botting, let’s see it, otherwise, you are intentionally antagonizing people, and I can’t let you do that.
It seems like you assume I know a lot of things I either don’t know or forgot about. Forgot about the modlog, still even looking there, it’s missing detail, such as someone to message to ask a question. Also, … “abelist insults”, really? I believe I wrote a couple things like “what is wrong with your brain?” which would not be taken as seriously by anyone I know.
I did see the message about providing evidence of shilling… I am just curious what would constitute such evidence? In my experience you could almost never prove it, and ironically that is what the parent post above is literally about.
It seems like you assume I know a lot of things I either don’t know or forgot about.
You admit that you have no evidence at all, and you are going around calling people who disagree with you “Russian bots”?
Suspicious voting patterns, repetitive spam messages, all of these would constitute as evidence, and our admins ban these spam bots usually within minutes.
"what is wrong with your brain?” which would not be taken as seriously by anyone I know.
You are going around and calling people stupid," it’s just a joke bro" is not going to cut it. Ironic prejudice is still prejudice.
I don’t want to argue with you more. Take the next 3 days off, talk about something else, think about how you can contribute positively before you come back.
You admit that you have no evidence at all, and you are going around calling people who disagree with you “Russian bots”?
No I didn’t, to any of this.
Ironic prejudice is still prejudice.
Uh, wow. No prejudice involved.
I don’t want to argue with you more
News to me this was an argument as the first contradiction just occurred
A child often behaves like an LLM-based bot - a child too often will imitate proper argumentation in style, but say junk, because they want to “win” an argument and not be correct. I would do that when I was a child.
I mean, adults do that too all the time, so the only way to distinguish bots from people is to communicate with people you know are real or others know are real.
I love how the old way of using the Web would solve this problem automatically, and P2P solutions with webs of trust too, but the majority of people uses the architecture most advantageous to bots.
Almost as if you needed bots to attract the majority of people. They wouldn’t come to the web otherwise, for just real people and real communities. It’s like a hunter’s whistle. Or like porn.
What about unpaid russian actors?
Why am I unsurprised that its lemmy.world libs bringing the ‘everyone I don’t like is a russian bot’ line to the fediverse.
Biden is assisting a genocide though. Will I vote for him in 2024? Most likely. I still fucking hate him though.
I mean, that’s fine. I only have a problem with people who will watch the world burn under the guise of principles
But if biden loses I’m going to blame HIM, not the voters. We all know how dangerous trump is. If biden and other mainstream dems actually believed it they’d be pushing boundaries like never before. But they’re not. They’re actually moving further right to try and appease “centrists” which is pretty much what the social democrats did in Germany in the 30s and we see how well that worked out. They should be promoting the organizing of militias in case trump supporters try to fuck around and seize power again if democracy really is on the line.
It won’t matter whose fault it is when democracy in the United States has been snuffed out.
“democracy”
Right, a semblance of it beats none of it
Hey man, tell it to biden. He’s clearly not taking this seriously enough.
vote biden because trump bad
what about their resumes? what have either candidates done that has benefited your life enough directly that demands your vote?
please name one thing biden has done that your life now is better for
was it the cannabis reforms he promised and flip flopped on with prosecutor harris? was it the police reforms he promised? was it defending our human rights? was it the immigration policies he talked up that now mirror republican strategies? or is that stagnant paycheck after biden promised a higher minimum wage of $15 which is still too low due to the inflation?
forgot he can not do anything because republicans and republicans never can do anything either because democrats
through policies and laws crafted and put in place by politicians like biden, trump, obama, and the list goes on my right to vote was taken so not like have a say in this election anyways
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/biden-promise-tracker/?ruling=true
Not that those links would be the metric to go by when voting, but they do not support your position as Biden’s stats are much better there.
I will not waste any more time on you so don’t bother replying
Yeah. I had to look at both twice to make sure and laughed a bit. Some people can site sources. But they can’t read em
lemmy despite trying not to be like reddit, it’s still moderated by people that get off on the power trip exactly the same
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Yeah exactly. What’s weird is my ban was reversed in lemmy.world/c/politics. I have no idea why but I sense weird behind the scenes drama
They don’t care that much.
Or just people with different opinions to yours
Anyone who sites “genocide” and then, in the same breath, supports Trump is either a shill, a fool, or both. There is no metric you can look at and say Trump is better,
To say the least
There is a very valid point made there. Think about all the weird arguments you had with other users on the internet over really frustrating stances that made you think "no one can be that dense, or with discussion tactics that were just utterly pointless (constantly shifting goal posts, strawmen, weird pseudo-philosphical ramblings that missed the point completely but ended in some smug “gotcha” that actually was nothing but nonsense). Those tend to leave us in a.bad mood sometimes, right? At least they wanted our mozherfuckin time.
Now ask yourself: would the impact on your day, the evaluation of what was said and/or your reaction to it have changed, had you known that your opponent is either a literal child or a teenager who just discovered the message behind an Ed Sheeran song and now thinks of themself as some conveyor of deep thoughts?
I’d bet that around half of all political debates on the internet are useless duels between one person actually arguing something and a child/teenager regurgitating what their dad said and they think they understood but actually didn’t.
As a counterpoint, I’ve had in person/face-to-face arguments with people that looked convincingly like typical adult humans that did all of these things.
Same. Intelligent coworkers who still voted for Trump, and still wanted to…
To be fair, I’m somewhat sure he was straight up a psychopath, though. He wasn’t even nice when you were going out of your way to help him.
This is why I tend not to reply. I make a post and if someone replies with “actually you’re wrong” I just move on with my day. I’ve never seen a reply chain 12 comments deep where the two people arguing come to a reasonable compromise.
I’ve seen it once or twice but it’s really rare!
Yeah those are beautiful when you find them lol. I’ve always wanted to be a part of one. Its on my posting bucket list.
Related, i always wanted to be a part of a music lyric chain too, and it finally happened! It was one of my last good experiences on Reddit. I still think about that day, what a glorious day it was …
Wanna have another go?
You are, my fire
🎤My one … Desire🎶
Believe, when I say
I tend to reply more often than is probably good for me not because I care about changing that person’s mind, but instead the others that are reading.
Welcome to the internet. I don’t see the point of banning someone for a post that no one will ever read again after 12 or so hours.
No u
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little removed? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo
Did you just think that you could fucking fool me with that comment of yours? I’ve searched your name up in the Navy SEAL database and you have never even graduated BUD/S, hell, even served in the Armed Forces. If you were actually a Navy SEAL, then you actually know how to spell guerrilla, you fucking moron. And you say you are the top sniper in the entire US Armed Forces and have over 300 confirmed kills. If that were true, then why the fuck is Chris Kyle a household name and you aren’t? And plus he only had 160 kills. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. Plus why the fuck would you say you have a secret network of spies yet you just revealed that you had your secret network of spies? Are you a fucking idiot? If you can kill someone seven-hundred different ways, then list them all, I bet you can’t even come up with seven. And if you had access to the entire US Marine Corps arsenal, then why the fuck did you just say you were in the Navy SEALs earlier? If only you could have done your research prior to posting your little “clever” comment, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you goddamn idiot.
Haha ive not seen that. It’s a work of art.
Thanks for the reply!
Too bad there isn’t a copypasta reply to the Rick and Morty high IQ one.
ended in some smug “gotcha” that actually was nothing but nonsense
Recent amusing example, some dingus thought “punching down” was an oxymoron, because not-being-an-asshole toward certain groups meant that group must be superior to you.
In hindsight I should’ve just called it out as recycled antisemitism.
Why is it that despite knowing how utterly futile snarky little debates are, I can’t resist doing it?
I hate it, but it’s so damn engaging.
The thing is. It’s never satisfying. Luke no one ever concedes. Ever. They just stop replying eventually.
Because it’s a battle of egos and about dominating the conversation. Both of which are vitally important to human life whether other people want to accept it or not.
It is satisfying on the rare occasion someone makes an actually interesting argument you haven’t heard before, or actually addresses your points.
I’m the exact same.
Everyone’s being funny about it, but the Dead Internet Theory is looking more and more rational, especially on Reddit. I really don’t have any rational reason to expect that even the dancing TikTok people are real, never mind Reddit comments. I’m fairly certain that I am a living thing, but I have to question everyone else, with all due respect.
Man, Reddit’s weird now. I think it’s just responding to the cookies that it sets as I use it, but I don’t log in and FF dumps cookies every time I close the browser for the night, so when I browse into r/All there’s a new “hot” subreddit every time, and it’s always kind of random. The usual suspects, like JusticeServed and all that fashy shit, those are kind of conspicuously absent, too.
I think Reddit’s on their way out, not because of Lemmy, sorry, but because all the normies getting forced online in 2020 was the last hurrah, and the site is on the way down, finally, I can feel the traffic dropping. Everyone’s either getting sucked into the jet engine of TikTok and Instagram or they’re just using group chats and avoiding social media altogether.
The fascinating thing about modern Reddit is at long last the Americans all seem to have left, and suddenly the site feels like it belongs to the EU, and even South America a bit. So either it’s about to rise with a new flame in this next decade or you should probably buy one share of the IPO as a keepsake and no more. I wonder how long it will take to delist.
My dude, I’ve spent the last couple years really upgrading my finance chops and now I just keep looking around at the variety of internet based things that seem to be winding down like a shitty old clock while going, hah! interest rates too high now! The current internet was only possible in the free money era.
Are you in the EU yourself? Americans have not left reddit. Simply, Reddit has been agressively trying to expand into the EU and LATAM, by constantly pushing the local equivalent of English subreddits like me_irl. To the point where if you are in the EU and logged out you will maybe 10% English content and 90% content in your language.
I really don’t have any rational reason to expect that even the dancing TikTok people are real
Judging by where the quality of fully AI video on the AI image subs is at, we’re probably still a few months out from that being easily possible.
We are already there, here is a good example https://www.instagram.com/emilypellegrini
Reddit is for cops. Its destruction was on purpose.
El/gin ai,rforce base is reddit’s most addicted city in a scrubbed blog post. Here’s a reddit post bragging about it to fellow a,irforce.
What do they do at El/gin? Don’t click anything. They do many things but mostly oh, nothing. Nothing to see here.
They’re just kidding, right? Right?
They wouldn’t do anything malicious, would they?.
That can’t be legal can it? Oh, thanks Obama.
It’s a dead platform for cops, square haircuts, corporate fellatio, thugs of capital, jackboot goons, and well trained Jan 6 architects
Man I posted one fully loaded question on askreddit and I’m shadow banned not even a warning fuck reddit
3-5 years ago, posting this would get people copy pasting the dictionary definition of solipsism at you and downvotes to hell. But now…it seems we are determined to crowdsource proof of it being the world we live in 🙃
Edit: the gutter subs that post the incendiary content is missing for you? That’s interesting
Man I posted one fully loaded on askreddit and I’m shadow banned not even a warning fuck reddit
I mean… welcome to the internet. It’s not just Reddit, but most social media, and some “news” sites.
I hypothesize that so many bots are being dumped into our internet conversations to make us all sick of their shit and break our internet addiction so we will all go back out and rejoin the real world again.
The problems on Facebook aren’t children. They’re men aged 39-55 wearing sunglasses.
I usually assume they are a piss drinker.
I only drink it when I feel scared about something. Ask your grandma she will tell you it’s true
How is this from the Onion!?!? I don’t know which is which anymore…
It’s from The Hard Drive, which is another satire site. The sidebar for this community mentions that other satire sites are okay to post.
Thanks; I meant the “news” itself, about not longer being able to tell wether the news being satire or not., even though it’s from the Onion or Hard drive
This is not an Onion article, this is a research paper
I wonder what Alan Turing would think of this.
He’d be too busy shitposting on Tumblr as King of the Gay Pirates
Gay Pirates have no king. Gay Pirates need no king.
Gay Pirates not only have a king, but need a king, because the writer is a monarchist
Let me ask the Alan Turing chatbot…
Probably be too busy in the garden looking at flowers, or too fascinated by the complexity of the emerging properties of neural networks and things.
Any AI smart enough to pass a turing test would also be smart enough to fail it on purpose.
Bots write better.
I’m trying to find the study, but if I recall the amount of bots and children make up over 60% of reddit users.
Akshually, Distinguishing between an AI-generated comment and a child’s input can be challenging due to evolving language models. Both may exhibit simplicity, occasional errors, or innocence in expression. As technology progresses, this line blurs, prompting reflection on the nature of communication and the expanding capabilities of AI.
This feels like it was written by AI
Thanks ChatGPT
… Or me
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I have a little trick to tell whether im arguing with someone who actually is astroturfin vs someone who’s simply ignorant. I just prick their egos, just a bit. Just a a minor one mind you, not a full throated dismissal. I like to work one into an otherwise on-topic reply.
Almost always the other person zeroes in on and rises to the bait. If they don’t? Theyre working. Similarly, astroturfers won’t get nasty like real folks do, or double down like real folks do if you debunk their argument well. Astroturfers dont want eyes in that so they’ll simply ghost you.
Just my hypothesis of course.
Dunno what to do about figuring their age except tell people mine. Sometimes that gives my words more weight. If my experience is instead dismissed, i always have my 30 years of Internet shit talking under my belt! Insults don’t hit as hard when they’re all re-runs :)
Edit: anyone want to tell me why they don’t like this? Points don’t matter when it doesn’t hide your comment but I am actually confused. You don’t like it? Think it’s bullshit? I am here for your complaints
Effectively you are dismissing users based on your own feelings and not much else
This might be true but it’s the best they I’ve got and it has served me somewhat well (confirmation bias, i know). Beyond my little trick there’s looking into their histories etc but everyone knows that one
Almost always the other person zeroes in on and rises to the bait.
That’s a bad method especially on Lemmy which prides itself on friendliness.
If I know I’m right, and coming down hard on someone in an argument, I actively avoid acknowledging insults because I see it as a tactic to stall from losing an argument.
People will start ramping up insults before they lose in order to bait you into arguing about the insults instead of the facts that they are wrong about.
I mean, it can pride itself on friendliness, but it’s not really a friendly place. People are toxic and dismissive, often ignoring any nuance in a discussion.
prides itself on friendliness.
🤣🤣🤣
That’s a bad method especially on Lemmy which prides itself on friendliness.
I’ve seen a minor increase in people willing to reply and bring actual sauce to discussion. I’ve still never seen anyone willing to change their mind despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Even when you have a username like my which goads people into ad hominems using fake historical earworms lol.
Respectfully, I don’t think lemmy is as friendly as all that. It’s a shit- ton better than Reddit though, (where i developed the method). That aside, there’s also my belief that there aren’t nearly as many astroturfers here (simply because of lemmys limited scope).
And if what you said is true about avoiding responding to insults, youre kind of a unicorn. Be proud. Most peoples egos are right there on their sleeves, and if youve been around the block you know (at least on that) I’m right.
People tie their egos to their beliefs. To attack their viewpoint is to attack them personally. People will get frustrated when you blow up an argument. People are easy.
Now id like to move discussion away from how I’m wrong and my methods bad, and towards other related ideas. Perhaps we might discuss ways to better my method instead of throwing it out (perfect being the enemy of good and all that)? I would also enjoy hearing methods (maybe you have some) of seperating astroturfers from posters.
Because they exist, and throwing up my hands is unacceptable
🤔🤔🤔
A really good way I have found that doesn’t turn the audience against you like barbecuing souls does is to not speak to whoever you’re replying to at all. Openly say you’re addressing the audience and speak of your opponent in the third person, the way you do when you are talking about someone else right in front of them. Or like, the way you’d show them a new game system you bought, or cookies you made, or something.
I did that before to an astroturfer on Reddit and the guy never responded back, and I got tons of sweet sweet Reddit karma.
Do you keep a list of people whom you’ve verified as human, perchance?
A really good way I have found that doesn’t turn the audience against you like barbecuing souls does is to not speak to whoever you’re replying to at all. Openly say you’re addressing the audience and speak of your opponent in the third person
I like your idea. I would like to keep people on my side generally since if i think someone is actually astro’n my turf i want other people to chasing them off too, not me. Generally i lose my audience when i mention the possibility they astroturfing even exists, and I’ve always wondered why. I’ll try your method out when i run into a 'turfer im sure about.
As far as any list, sorry i got nothin. I used to keep a list of suspect astroturfers on Reddit but I’m way too new on lemmy, still finding my way around.
Your strategy, while innovative, is fundamentally flawed. It’s disingenuous and presumptuous, alienating those who maintain composure and objectivity rather than reacting emotionally to your minor provocations.
I propose an easier solution: interact with people who you find interesting. Worst case, you have a wonderful conversation with a bot and find your prejudice wasn’t even warranted.
You just run away when someone questions your bad faith argument like a true adult.
This is embarrassing.
Eh. I have 160 replies that I haven’t even looked at. Most of the time I just can’t be bothered to respond to you.
I think I’m probably just gonna end up in the inbox but why would you even comment on a forum if you had no interest in what the other person had to say? In this thread i suppose it’s necessary to say I’m not trying to trick ya, I’m curious! i wonder: what are you getting out of commenting without seeing replies?
Most of the time I don’t reply. Sometimes I do though :)
You know that meme about the people who type up a whole response and then delete it, don’t post it, and move on? That’s unironically me, except now I skip the first three steps. My opinion isn’t worth anything and I (more or less) gave up trying to get people to change their opinions online a long time ago.
I like seeing what other people have to say on various subjects. I don’t really like sharing, myself.
Hey, thank you for sharing! I thought i was gonna be #161. I think the kind of person who had the self-awareness to say something like “my opinion isn’t worth anything” is the kind of person that i want to see posting more, personally. But i get it. Take it easy :)
You think that anyone behaving like an adult after you insult them is a shill? Kee-rist, no wonder the internet is in such bad shape.
i always have my 30 years of Internet shit talking under my belt! Insults don’t hit as hard when they’re all re-runs :)
Only 30? If you weren’t online before '93 then you’re a n00b.
Would you mind explaining what party of my comment made your get angry?
Did you extrapolate what i said, (i do this with people i suspect) to mean i do this to everyone?
Was it when i mentioned people’s egos? did i come off as arrogant?
Im interested now that everyone’s all cooled down in what got everyone all pissed off, cuz again believe it or not that wasn’t the comment’s intent
What do you say?
Huh, you’re nicer about it than I am. I usually just barbecue their souls and then get banned. 🤷
