Having large numbers of people starve to death seems like a pretty damning indictment of a system. But I dunno, maybe I’m overly attached to food?

  • novibe
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    3 months ago

    People starved many many times in those places before the communist revolutions. People starved all over the world under many economic systems. Most of the time due to climate events.

    That is basically what happened in the two famines you are thinking of. There was extreme drought in Europe and Central Asia for decades, which did kill a lot of people. In Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and yes Ukraine. They also died in Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, parts of the Middle East. Just like many died in the US from massive droughts in the decade before.

    What you probably purposefully leave out is how there was never famine again in the USSR. People experienced better caloric intake than the US up until the collapse of the union and neoliberal shock-therapy brought hunger back.

    In any case, was there mismanagement during the famine of the 30s? Yea, of course.

    Was there sabotage by counterrevolutionaries? Yes, of course.

    Who is to blame? Not a single person, and likely not even people in general tbh.

    Almost all of this also applies to the famine in China.

    So idk, I know the OP doesn’t care and isn’t trying to look for an alternative to his narrative. But others who come in here might take something positive from the comments we leave.

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      You didn’t mention all the farmers who got killed in Ukraine. Why not? Don’t you think murdering a bunch of farmers might have had something to do with the famine?

      • novibe
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        3 months ago

        No “farmer” was “murdered”… Kulaks were killed yes, but they were the counterrevolutionary forces that were burning food supplies. They were literally in armed struggle against the state and were committing acts of terrorism. What do you suppose was the correct response against them?

        Reminding you that most were not killed, and were just arrested.