FINALLY someone thought up “what are you gonna do, vote for the other guy???”

collecting a sweet paycheck advising dems to do the same fucking shit for literally decades

    • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      10 months ago

      I just WONDER why all of these NATO countries have such nazi problems in their militaries? I just cannot figure that out. I sure hope the CIA has never been chummy with nazis, worked with them and helped them get into positions of power. Nato sure loves its nazis, huh…

      To be honest, a Russian invasion of Germany wouldn’t happen (because, why?) but I wouldn’t exactly be waving Germany’s flag if Russia decided that their army being full of neonazis wasn’t that cool.

      So yes-comm

        • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          10 months ago

          Your first paragraph is true on its own, but do you not see the structural, systemic problems with militaries like this? How the US was happy to aid far-right Ukranian war criminals in the 1940s and prop them up as lobbyists? How the Euromaidan coup was funded by the US? Not coincidental.

          I can’t really engage in your call for more nukes and drones though, as if that’s a solution or something, very obama-drone

            • ashinadash [she/her]@hexbear.net
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              10 months ago

              The solution might involve an end to right-wing imperialist nations and their militaries. Where do you think you are? Yes, the hierarchical concept of these militaries does attract this sort of thing - again, see the inherent problem? These are problems that are not bugs but features of the way these states and nations work. Intentional.

    • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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      10 months ago

      Does that mean that we shouldn’t support them if Russia invades

      nobody should support Germany if they didn’t have neonazis, because they were never properly punished for the original nazis.

    • LordBullingdon@hexbear.net
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      10 months ago

      Most Ukranian soldiers are forced conscripts, and they’re led by far-right nationalists. They’ve turned Ukraine into a hellhole same as fascists always do.
      Putin wouldn’t have invaded if the Ukrainian govt. hadn’t been doing stuff like trying to join NATO. Do you think NATO membership is worth dying for? Is the right for paramilitaries to keep committing warcrimes in Donbas worth dying for? Because that’s why Ukrainians are dying, it’s not to have ‘a safe home for their families’, this isn’t Lord of the Rings and the Russians aren’t orcs. If they were assured Ukraine couldn’t potentially be turned into a staging ground for a NATO invasion of Russia, they would go home.

        • LordBullingdon@hexbear.net
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          10 months ago

          Whether they have a ‘right’ to it or not is irrelevant. We live in the real world, and in the real world they can’t, anymore than Mexico or Canada could have joined the Warsaw Pact, or invite the Chinese to establish military bases on the US border.
          And in reality, no-one is willing to die to join NATO. It’s not an ideal or a freedom, - it’s nothing. But it was a way for far-right Nationalists/Nazi’s to gain US funding and support, and then to gain power, and then to instigate the war with Russia that they had long desired.
          And if it sounds crazy that the Ukranian far right would desire war with Russia - well, they’re fascists, they are crazy.
          I’m not saying Russia’s actions are ethically correct, but if you look at it from a realist perspective, they are not only understandable but they were entirely predictable.
          I don’t believe the Ukranian people wanted war with Russia, but a majority of people in West Ukraine did get caught up by fascist propaganda, and they trusted the far-right to lead them, and now the fascists have left their country in ruins.

        • LemmeAtEm
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          10 months ago

          The Ukranian people wanted to join NATO

          No they didn’t. It’s part of the reason so many Ukrainians especially in the east and south of the country started movements to try to gain independence from the fascist Ukrainian coup government.

          The reason was safety and their fears have been justified by what has happened.

          The reason was not safety and hundreds of thousands would not have died needlessly in a proxy war if the fascist coup government had not been installed by pro-NATO western powers. Most Ukrainians were not so stupid as to think striving to join NATO was anything but a road to war, which is what has happened.

          And NATO would never invade Russia anyway due to its nuclear umbrella.

          No shit. That’s why they’re using Ukraine for a proxy war.

          And why would they want to anyway?

          There are many reasons they (US/NATO/"the west’) want to destroy Russia as it is. They want another comprador government in Russia that is subservient to their interests, not an independent and powerful state that could become an economic competitor (or at least a major component of an economically competitive bloc). They want to exploit Russia (much as they did after the fall of the Soviet Union) by privatizing everything and selling it off for a pittance to American bourgeoisie, just as they have done and are right now doing to Ukraine. Another way of phrasing that last point would be to say they want unfettered access to Russia’s resources (natural resources, labor, etc.) on their terms, not in terms of the national interest of Russians. They want to want to prevent a multipolar world and maintain their global hegemony. They want a government in Russia they control to put further pressure on China. They want to prevent Europe from buying its energy from Russia so that Europe is entirely dependent on the US for Europe’s continued existence. That last one they have already achieved by destroying the Nordstream pipeline, just as Biden promised he would.

          And the rebels in the Donbas are and have always been aligned with the Russian agressors, and against Kiev. Remember they used to fight the Ukrainian army even before the invasion.

          Everything you’ve said here is a point against your position (of Russia and the people of Donbas being the aggressors), not for it. First of all, “always” should be replaced with “since 2014.” Think about what you’re saying, “the rebels sided with ‘the aggressors’ even before ‘the aggressors’ did their ‘aggression’!” If some kid on a playground, kid 1, starts beating the shit out of a smaller kid, kid2, and a third one, kid3 steps in and punches kid1 to stop him from killing kid2, would you say “kid2 always sided with the aggressive kid3”? If so, you’re a fucking idiot. I guess the people of the Donbas should have just allowed neo-nazis to ethnically cleanse them? They should have just been ok with scores of union members being burned alive? They should have accepted laws that banned their language and made them (at best) second class citizens? And Russia stepping in on their behalf makes Russia the aggressors, not the fascist coup government waging an ethnic cleansing campaign?