The US and China are rapidly approaching a new kind of media-driven Cold War
I’d say we’re already there even though it is largely one-sided.
with the unaligned nations being the battlefronts for dueling propaganda efforts
How do you figure? I’m not saying you’re wrong, just rather I don’t see too much propaganda aimed at other nations, rather it’s imperial core countries aiming their propaganda at their own populations for usual consent-manufacturing reasons, and perhaps China aiming a little bit at their own population but to a far lesser extent as to be almost insignificant in comparison. China doesn’t really need to manufacture any consent domestically because it’s not the one saber-rattling for a conflict. When it comes to peripheral nations, the west mostly just says to them “do what we tell you to or else” and China mostly just says “hey, whatever, let’s just do some trading.”
The problem that the western propagandists have is that they’ve generally gotten really bad at it.
Well, in a way. You’re right that all they seem to know to do is ratchet up the sanctions, but their method of propaganda is sheer saturation. Make sure that every mainstream media outlet is on board with the anti-China propaganda and steer all major social media such that “China Bad!” appears to be a unanimous consensus, and job done. And it works extremely well. The state propaganda doesn’t need to be very sophisticated itself at this point because the consent-manufacturing machine has been built, maintained, and well-oiled for a long time already.
To quote Dr Lubinda Haabazoka
That is a great quote and really does sum up the comparison of how the west and China each approach international relations with would-be economic partners. It’s a good demonstration for why any propaganda battle between the west and China for the approval of the rest of the world would necessarily be so one-sided. One of them has to lie and endlessly make up excuses for their actions and behavior (bullying and swindling) while the other can just calmly gesture towards their actions and behavior (equal exchange and genuine support).
I’d say we’re already there even though it is largely one-sided
When you’re in the belly of the beast, it’s easy to miss what’s going on outside. I don’t think it’s one sided, by any stretch.
The state propaganda doesn’t need to be very sophisticated itself at this point because the consent-manufacturing machine has been built, maintained, and well-oiled for a long time already.
The post WW2 Peace Dividend has largely played itself out, though. Our voracious appetite for extraction is costing us open ears internationally.
Like, nobody in Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Israel or even Ukraine really takes the US propaganda seriously. They’ve got their own internal propaganda that is far more compelling, and it’s often diametrically opposed to the liberal democratic line.
One of them has to lie and endlessly make up excuses for their actions and behavior (bullying and swindling) while the other can just calmly gesture towards their actions and behavior (equal exchange and genuine support).
I think it is a mistake to think Chinese businessmen and bureaucrats are simply beyond bullying and swindling. But they don’t have the luxury of the world’s biggest military to swing around, nor do they have this ever-growing arsenal of privately developed weapons that they’re eager to exhaust and replenish.
The incentives of a communist country are fundamentally different from a capitalist state. This allows Chinese diplomats to exercise techniques that NATO states do not have the political tool bag to deploy.
When you’re in the belly of the beast, it’s easy to miss what’s going on outside. I don’t think it’s one sided, by any stretch.
It’s true. my perspective is unavoidably limited by being in an imperial core country, but is there any evidence for how China is conducting a propaganda war against the US (or at all) anywhere near the same volume or scale that the US is against China?
Like, nobody in Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Israel or even Ukraine really takes the US propaganda seriously. They’ve got their own internal propaganda that is far more compelling, and it’s often diametrically opposed to the liberal democratic line.
Yeah, I agree. But that’s what I was getting a about the western propaganda being mostly designed for their respective domestic populations, it’s not produced for the sake of the common folk of non-western countries. Is the US even attempting to make propaganda directed at the populations of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, or Ukraine? They don’t need to, since for the most part, those who rule in those countries are in alignment with US interests anyway. The liberal democratic line exists (once again) for the population within the core countries themselves. Like, the US doesn’t give a single shit that Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy. Ukraine? Vassals of NATO, of course their internal propaganda is in line with the US. They would never even think of siding with China over the US and despise China anyway for not siding against Russia. Israel can’t exist without the will and favor of the US, they are a massive military outpost for the west in the middle east and are autonomous only so far as they are willing to be more openly fascist in how they go about doing what the US wants them to do anyway, the US in no way needs to produce propaganda to influence them. Turkey does at least have some differing interests than the US, but they’re still a NATO country and so far haven’t had the reason or will to rock the boat in a way that is pro-China and anti-US.
I think it is a mistake to think Chinese businessmen and bureaucrats are simply beyond bullying and swindling.
Oh believe me, that’s not a mistake I’m making. But as has been said many times, business interests (owners of private capital) in China are on a leash held by the state, in the west it’s the other way around. I don’t doubt that Chinese capitalists would swindle just as much as any other capitalists, but they aren’t the ones calling the shots, the CPC is. And the CPC has repeatedly demonstrated that they only want to do fair, equal exchange, mutually beneficial economics with other countries. They don’t need a massive propaganda machine to convince their trading partners that this is their agenda since their actions over the last couple decades are convincing enough, hence the quote you posted: “Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture.”
The incentives of a communist country are fundamentally different from a capitalist state.
Absolutely.
This allows Chinese diplomats to exercise techniques that NATO states do not have the political tool bag to deploy.
I guess I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Techniques like equal exchange?
I’d say we’re already there even though it is largely one-sided.
How do you figure? I’m not saying you’re wrong, just rather I don’t see too much propaganda aimed at other nations, rather it’s imperial core countries aiming their propaganda at their own populations for usual consent-manufacturing reasons, and perhaps China aiming a little bit at their own population but to a far lesser extent as to be almost insignificant in comparison. China doesn’t really need to manufacture any consent domestically because it’s not the one saber-rattling for a conflict. When it comes to peripheral nations, the west mostly just says to them “do what we tell you to or else” and China mostly just says “hey, whatever, let’s just do some trading.”
Well, in a way. You’re right that all they seem to know to do is ratchet up the sanctions, but their method of propaganda is sheer saturation. Make sure that every mainstream media outlet is on board with the anti-China propaganda and steer all major social media such that “China Bad!” appears to be a unanimous consensus, and job done. And it works extremely well. The state propaganda doesn’t need to be very sophisticated itself at this point because the consent-manufacturing machine has been built, maintained, and well-oiled for a long time already.
That is a great quote and really does sum up the comparison of how the west and China each approach international relations with would-be economic partners. It’s a good demonstration for why any propaganda battle between the west and China for the approval of the rest of the world would necessarily be so one-sided. One of them has to lie and endlessly make up excuses for their actions and behavior (bullying and swindling) while the other can just calmly gesture towards their actions and behavior (equal exchange and genuine support).
When you’re in the belly of the beast, it’s easy to miss what’s going on outside. I don’t think it’s one sided, by any stretch.
The post WW2 Peace Dividend has largely played itself out, though. Our voracious appetite for extraction is costing us open ears internationally.
Like, nobody in Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Israel or even Ukraine really takes the US propaganda seriously. They’ve got their own internal propaganda that is far more compelling, and it’s often diametrically opposed to the liberal democratic line.
I think it is a mistake to think Chinese businessmen and bureaucrats are simply beyond bullying and swindling. But they don’t have the luxury of the world’s biggest military to swing around, nor do they have this ever-growing arsenal of privately developed weapons that they’re eager to exhaust and replenish.
The incentives of a communist country are fundamentally different from a capitalist state. This allows Chinese diplomats to exercise techniques that NATO states do not have the political tool bag to deploy.
It’s true. my perspective is unavoidably limited by being in an imperial core country, but is there any evidence for how China is conducting a propaganda war against the US (or at all) anywhere near the same volume or scale that the US is against China?
Yeah, I agree. But that’s what I was getting a about the western propaganda being mostly designed for their respective domestic populations, it’s not produced for the sake of the common folk of non-western countries. Is the US even attempting to make propaganda directed at the populations of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, or Ukraine? They don’t need to, since for the most part, those who rule in those countries are in alignment with US interests anyway. The liberal democratic line exists (once again) for the population within the core countries themselves. Like, the US doesn’t give a single shit that Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy. Ukraine? Vassals of NATO, of course their internal propaganda is in line with the US. They would never even think of siding with China over the US and despise China anyway for not siding against Russia. Israel can’t exist without the will and favor of the US, they are a massive military outpost for the west in the middle east and are autonomous only so far as they are willing to be more openly fascist in how they go about doing what the US wants them to do anyway, the US in no way needs to produce propaganda to influence them. Turkey does at least have some differing interests than the US, but they’re still a NATO country and so far haven’t had the reason or will to rock the boat in a way that is pro-China and anti-US.
Oh believe me, that’s not a mistake I’m making. But as has been said many times, business interests (owners of private capital) in China are on a leash held by the state, in the west it’s the other way around. I don’t doubt that Chinese capitalists would swindle just as much as any other capitalists, but they aren’t the ones calling the shots, the CPC is. And the CPC has repeatedly demonstrated that they only want to do fair, equal exchange, mutually beneficial economics with other countries. They don’t need a massive propaganda machine to convince their trading partners that this is their agenda since their actions over the last couple decades are convincing enough, hence the quote you posted: “Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture.”
Absolutely.
I guess I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Techniques like equal exchange?