Working Class Hero (Remastered 2010)
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Provided to YouTube by Universal Music GroupWorking Class Hero (Remastered 2010) · John LennonPlastic Ono Band℗ 2010 Calderstone Productions Limited (a divis...

I was reading this article from 1970 and he’s obviously a complicated dude: https://archive.is/POtvB

The lyrics are a little haunting and I’ve never heard it before.

  • OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.worldEnglish
    83·
    11 months ago

    Rag on him for both.

    “Acceptable of the time” isn’t a valid excuse against bigotry. There’s a differenc between thinking something is criminal but having no moral objection to it, you know, like drugs and free love and everything else their music talks about, and thinking something is criminal and that there is a moral attachment to that act.

    There were people in the 60s/70s/80s that wouldn’t write a workers rights song and say “keep it away from fags and girly men though”, because they’re not self-dillusioned assholes, John Lennon just didn’t happen to be one.

    • fathog@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      11 months ago

      I’m not saying “oh, it was the 70s, removed meant something else” (even though that’s true - 60 years have gone by!). I’m saying that taking that comment out of context and labeling the guy as a bigot is some 2023 shit. Lennon was, by his own admission, bisexual - and it’s entirely possible that he actually hooked up with Epstein (and Elton John, later on).

      I’m not defending the comment, to be clear. It’s quite nasty. But using that to label him as a homophobe/bigot is an absurd reach.

      He was an asshole fwiw, and the domestic/child abuse is completely inexcusable. But for fucks sake, he was probably referring to hippies with that comment.

      And honestly, it is important to view things in historical context. Being supportive of an quasi-openly gay person (and letting them manage your career!) when it was criminal takes balls, and that’s not something that should be erased because of one nasty quote.

      • Uglyhead@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        11 months ago

        He was ragging on someone for ‘removed dancing’ in the same interview, denied having relations with Brian, and called him a removed. Deep in the closet and denial and trying to talk shit to deflect, I can see. “Acting” like a bigot and a gay-basher,…maybe.

        • fathog@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          11 months ago

          Or maybe that slur really did carry less weight for an Englishman in 1971? Here’s the quote you referenced:

          Let me ask you about something else that was in the Hunter Davies book. At one point it said you and Brian Epstein went off to Spain.

          Yes. We didn’t have an affair though. Fuck knows what was said. I was pretty close to Brian. If somebody is going to manage me, I want to know them inside out. He told me he was a removed.

          I hate the way Allen is attacked and Brian is made out to be an angel just because he’s dead. He wasn’t, you know, he was just a guy.

          I read the entire interview. There’s nothing in there condemning being gay, or even really any commentary on sexuality. He says a slur a few times! In 1971! There’s also a huge chunk of the interview where he talks about supporting civil rights, which you’re not talking about for some reason.

          Your comments makes it sound like he’s hand in hand with Reagan 10 years later, when it’s honestly less offensive than a lot of shit that’s been said this decade by politicians and Christians worldwide.

          I doubt I can change your mind, since you seem pretty set on this point. But I’m curious: Elton John didn’t come out as gay until the 90s. If he was killed in 1980, would you be calling him a bigot too?