or when sounded as a,
as in ‘neighbor’ and ‘weigh’,
or when it appears in comparatives and superlatives like ‘fancier’,
or when the c sounds as sh as in ‘glacier’,
or when the vowel sounds like ee as in ‘seize’
or i as in ‘height’,
or when it shows up in compound words such as ‘albeit’,
or when it shows up in –ing inflections of verbs that end in e, like queueing,
or occasionally in technical words that have a strong etymological link to their parent languages such as ‘cuneiform’ and ‘caffeine’,
and in numerous other random exceptions such as ‘science’, ‘forfeit’, and ‘weird.’
I before e, except after c, or when sounding like a, as in “neighbor” or “weigh”, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say!
You just unlocked a weird memory: way back in very early school, we would recite these as a group in class over and over. Eventually we all could recite them perfectly on command, kind of like the ABCs.
There were several: long-form I Before E (including some exceptions), Days in a month (‘30 days hath September’ plus all exceptions), and one about pronouncing vowel combinations.
Nearly 50 years later, and bits of those recitations are whispered in some crevice of my brain when I’m planning for the end of the month or spelling a word with I and E.
That’s weird. I can’t remember them properly and I don’t try to think of them, they’re just there. Rote memorisation at a young age is frighteningly powerful.
eta: Looking through the thread more, it looks like a lot of us have this exact feeling. That’s so interesting.
This is like trying to remember poetry to determine if a snake is venomous.
Is it red on black, friend of Jack? Red on black, you’re dead Jack!? Black on red, right said Fred? Black on red, you’re so dead!? Red on yellow kills a fellow! Or red on yellow, friendly fellow!?
I’m good at rhyming and bad at remembering things, so I’d just die.
Most of the US dictionaries (MW, Collins, Am Heritage, etc) list the ei as rhyming with me as the first pronunciation. Might be different for you regionally or in other countries though.
That’s because it’s not taught correctly. It’s supposed to apply to words that have an “ee” sound from blended vowels, because those are the words that are confusing to remember whether the i or the e comes first. And even then there are exceptions (weird, seize, Keith). It was never meant to cover words with an “ay” sound like weigh or where the 2 vowels are pronounced separately (science, glacier, being).
But it’s much more fun to pick words that “disprove” the rule for Internet points (even though they were never meant to be in scope).
That’s why the full rule that my English teacher grandmother taught me but surprisingly most people don’t seem to know is “I before e except after c, but only if it rhymes with ‘me’”
I’ve never understood this “rule”, it seems to be the opposite case most of the time
Statistically the rule is true.
Especially when including the entire rule, which includes all the exceptions:
https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2013/11/07/i-before-e/#:~:text=How well does the spelling,holds 54%25 of the time.
See, simple
I before e, except after c, or when sounding like a, as in “neighbor” or “weigh”, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say!
A+ for the Brian Regan reference. He’s magic.
I hoped someone would recognize it.
You just unlocked a weird memory: way back in very early school, we would recite these as a group in class over and over. Eventually we all could recite them perfectly on command, kind of like the ABCs.
There were several: long-form I Before E (including some exceptions), Days in a month (‘30 days hath September’ plus all exceptions), and one about pronouncing vowel combinations.
Nearly 50 years later, and bits of those recitations are whispered in some crevice of my brain when I’m planning for the end of the month or spelling a word with I and E.
That’s weird. I can’t remember them properly and I don’t try to think of them, they’re just there. Rote memorisation at a young age is frighteningly powerful.
eta: Looking through the thread more, it looks like a lot of us have this exact feeling. That’s so interesting.
ITS A CUP, WITH DIRT IN IT
This is like trying to remember poetry to determine if a snake is venomous.
Is it red on black, friend of Jack? Red on black, you’re dead Jack!? Black on red, right said Fred? Black on red, you’re so dead!? Red on yellow kills a fellow! Or red on yellow, friendly fellow!?
I’m good at rhyming and bad at remembering things, so I’d just die.
beer before wine you’ll feel fine
wine before beer you’ll feel fine
mix wine and liquor you’ll feel fine
mix beer and liquor you’ll feel fine
I’m in love with her and I feel fine.
It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
Ah, yes of course…
english is fun
I before e except after c, but only if it rhymes with ‘me’. I dare you to find an exception.
seize, caffeine, leisure
Also a lot of plural words ending in -cy, like agencies, delicacies, or latencies.
Fair for all of them except leisure, where the ei doesn’t rhyme with me but with fair.
Most of the US dictionaries (MW, Collins, Am Heritage, etc) list the ei as rhyming with me as the first pronunciation. Might be different for you regionally or in other countries though.
That’s because it’s not taught correctly. It’s supposed to apply to words that have an “ee” sound from blended vowels, because those are the words that are confusing to remember whether the i or the e comes first. And even then there are exceptions (weird, seize, Keith). It was never meant to cover words with an “ay” sound like weigh or where the 2 vowels are pronounced separately (science, glacier, being).
But it’s much more fun to pick words that “disprove” the rule for Internet points (even though they were never meant to be in scope).
The rule isn’t a very good one in either context.
English is inconsistent on spelling. It just is. That’s the rule.
That’s why the full rule that my English teacher grandmother taught me but surprisingly most people don’t seem to know is “I before e except after c, but only if it rhymes with ‘me’”
That rule is just weird.