Correct, in the same way that guns are not inherently evil and require someone with bad intentions to use them in a bad way. Both are correct, but sadly the folks who believe a certain way (books are bad or guns are bad) will not be convinced to change their point of view by a snarky sign.
Ofc guns aren’t evil. They’re objects. A chair can’t be evil. And yes, you can bash someone over the head with a chair, yet there is a glaring difference. A gun is made for the sole purpose to shoot someone. You can’t really use it for anything else. It’s absolutely it’s intended purpose and what it’s used for. So, if we were to assign ‘good’ or ‘evil’ to inanimate objects, guns would certainly lean way more into the evil side.
A gun can shoot someTHING, not only someONE. I’ve shot guns many times and have never shot someone. People forget competitive shooting is a thing (and very fun). I know I’ll be downvoted, but just trying to show people there is another side.
I don’t think anybody ever forgets that they are essentially toys to some people. But look at drones. People love to fly them, they are very fun, but those things weilded irresponsibly are a fucking menace to people and there are some laws with hefty penalties for using them in ways that endanger the public incur hefty fines because they are dangerous.
Yet guns don’t get the same treatment in the US.
Quite frankly the fun factor isn’t really pursuant to the discussion. When you are talking about wide ranging public health issues that make a lot of people more likely to die due to making suicides more successful and escalate your personal conflicts into highly deadly senarios people do not want to take the time to entertain discussion about how fun they are to shoot because it turns one into the adult trying to deal with a maddened six year old trying to make a case for buying lawn darts.
Yes, there are secondary uses that have risen in popularity because people want excuses to have more guns.
That does not mean their primary use has changed. You can use them to hammer nails if you really want to. That doesn’t mean that’s what they’re made for.
You need armor piercing rounds to hit a target? How about am ankle holster? What about a silencer? What about a concealed carry permit?
If every civilian who owned a gun owned it specifically to have fun at the range things would be a lot different. Pointing out the one tiny use of a subcategory of it is just a distraction. I could use the air conditioner in my car to cool down my cup of coffee but that is in no way shape or form the primary reason for owning a car.
I don’t remember being turned, and neither does anybody I know. To the contrary, there was so much constant pressure to be straight from a very young age and you can guess how well that worked.
My comment wasn’t intended to suggest gay people can be (or should be) convinced to be straight, I apologize if it came off like that. I don’t believe sexual orientation is something that should be forced on to someone. You be you.
Sorry, just the sentence that said “both are correct” sounded to me like you’re agreeing that people kill people and that gay people gay people, but I probably misunderstood. lol
Correct, the same way that someone with good intentions can use a car the wrong way. I know you are not going to be convinced, but I’m just trying to provide another point of view.
Also, cars are more strictly regulated than guns in most parts of the US. If you’re pro gun then you might want to think of a better comparison.
For every person killed in the US by homicide in a year, about 1.65 are killed in motor vehicle accidents (~26k vs ~43k). About half of those homicides are with guns, so cars are around 3.3 times as deadly as guns. To go in on the “assault weapon” laws from this angle, those laws tend to target rifles, rifles are ~10% of homicides, so cars are ~16 times as deadly as rifles.
Seriously, motor vehicles are one of the most deadly things out there that people routinely interact with, and driving is one of the most dangerous things people routinely do.
There is no need to attack me for bringing up a point of view that’s different from yours. To answer your question, no, guns don’t require bad intentions to be misused. If someone causes harm but did not intend to, that scenario is called an accident.
Have a nice day.
The responses to your comment are mind-blowingly stupid and small-minded. And that’s not even to mention the ones that totally misrepresent what you said. It’s very disappointing and disheartening.
Thank you. I really like the Lemmy community, but most are extremely anti-gun. I’ve been able to show multiple people IRL how much fun guns can be when used responsibly, but it’s much harder to do online.
But you absolutely don’t need to own a gun to have fun with one. You can go to a shooting range, they’ll give you one, you have your fun and go home. No everyday citizen owns a gun in that scenario, but fun was had. (This is how it works in the EU mostly.)
I have had my fair share of fun with guns and I agree with you: they are indeed great fun! But I’ve never felt the need to own a gun because of that.
No gun ranges where I live. Very rural, tons of space. If I want to shoot a gun, the most practical way is - by far - simply owning it myself. I also trust myself to take care of it and keep it safe. Considering how far I’d have to drive to get to a gun range, and how unsafe driving is statistically… I’d say it’s also safest to take out that variable.
Not needing something is never a good argument to not have something. I don’t need the vast majority of the things I own, but I do have them.
Anybody that takes the sport of shooting seriously owns their gun. That’s also the way it was in much of the EU before gun laws there got stupid, especially in the UK, and that wasn’t even that long ago.
I’ll be honest, Lemmy has some of the worst showings of good faith discussion I’ve ever seen. I’m glad you like the community, but be careful not to spend too much time here. It’s already unwelcoming to many people, and I certainly see more and more extremist rhetoric on it every time I log in.
I grew up around guns and totally agree with you as far as that goes, but my larger point, the source of my disappointment where this discussion is concerned, is that people are misrepresenting what you actually said in the first place.
It’s one thing to disagree with an argument, but it’s an entirely different thing to disagree with an argument that no one actually made.
My complaint here is that most of the comments in opposition to your initial comment were made on the basis of bad-faith or idiot misunderstanding of your original point.
In other words, my complaint is not about anyone’s position so much as it is about how they use rational (or irrational) thoughts to arrive at said conclusions.
Don’t forget the other issue, half these people could actually agree with you, and they’d still cry and downvote, just because. For a place that was supposed to solve half the issues of Reddit, it’s just as bad if not worse.
Guns do not require someone with bad intentions use them in a bad way. A 4 year old near me blew her head off while her family was in the next room. Plenty of other people with no bad intentions have liked themselves and others with guns.
Thing is, I’m only half joking. Driving really is about the single most dangerous thing most of us do regularly, people don’t take it seriously enough. I’d much rather have viable public transportation options, but I live in the suburbs of Phoenix so that’s not going to happen in my lifetime.
Pretty sure I’ve heard of at least a couple cases where small children accidentally knocked a car into drive and caused serious damage, but that’s not really the point I was making…
Cars are still designed to keep the occupants safe during a collision. Toddler is going to live no matter what way that car is pointed, unless there’s a second car.
Accidental gun discharges don’t need a passing second gun to be fatal.
Correct, in the same way that guns are not inherently evil and require someone with bad intentions to use them in a bad way. Both are correct, but sadly the folks who believe a certain way (books are bad or guns are bad) will not be convinced to change their point of view by a snarky sign.
Ofc guns aren’t evil. They’re objects. A chair can’t be evil. And yes, you can bash someone over the head with a chair, yet there is a glaring difference. A gun is made for the sole purpose to shoot someone. You can’t really use it for anything else. It’s absolutely it’s intended purpose and what it’s used for. So, if we were to assign ‘good’ or ‘evil’ to inanimate objects, guns would certainly lean way more into the evil side.
A gun can shoot someTHING, not only someONE. I’ve shot guns many times and have never shot someone. People forget competitive shooting is a thing (and very fun). I know I’ll be downvoted, but just trying to show people there is another side.
I don’t think anybody ever forgets that they are essentially toys to some people. But look at drones. People love to fly them, they are very fun, but those things weilded irresponsibly are a fucking menace to people and there are some laws with hefty penalties for using them in ways that endanger the public incur hefty fines because they are dangerous.
Yet guns don’t get the same treatment in the US.
Quite frankly the fun factor isn’t really pursuant to the discussion. When you are talking about wide ranging public health issues that make a lot of people more likely to die due to making suicides more successful and escalate your personal conflicts into highly deadly senarios people do not want to take the time to entertain discussion about how fun they are to shoot because it turns one into the adult trying to deal with a maddened six year old trying to make a case for buying lawn darts.
Yes, there are secondary uses that have risen in popularity because people want excuses to have more guns.
That does not mean their primary use has changed. You can use them to hammer nails if you really want to. That doesn’t mean that’s what they’re made for.
Fasteners driven with gunpowder charges exist, one brand is called ramset.
You need armor piercing rounds to hit a target? How about am ankle holster? What about a silencer? What about a concealed carry permit?
If every civilian who owned a gun owned it specifically to have fun at the range things would be a lot different. Pointing out the one tiny use of a subcategory of it is just a distraction. I could use the air conditioner in my car to cool down my cup of coffee but that is in no way shape or form the primary reason for owning a car.
Yeah. An even chair. This is wild.
I don’t remember being turned, and neither does anybody I know. To the contrary, there was so much constant pressure to be straight from a very young age and you can guess how well that worked.
My comment wasn’t intended to suggest gay people can be (or should be) convinced to be straight, I apologize if it came off like that. I don’t believe sexual orientation is something that should be forced on to someone. You be you.
Sorry, just the sentence that said “both are correct” sounded to me like you’re agreeing that people kill people and that gay people gay people, but I probably misunderstood. lol
Someone with good intentions can absolutely use guns the wrong way.
Correct, the same way that someone with good intentions can use a car the wrong way. I know you are not going to be convinced, but I’m just trying to provide another point of view.
Cars are a good example because they’re dangerous and therefore heavily regulated. (Not heavily enough if you ask me, but nobody asked me lol).
You’ve reversed yourself. Which is it? Do guns require bad intentions to be misused or not?
Also, cars are more strictly regulated than guns in most parts of the US. If you’re pro gun then you might want to think of a better comparison.
For every person killed in the US by homicide in a year, about 1.65 are killed in motor vehicle accidents (~26k vs ~43k). About half of those homicides are with guns, so cars are around 3.3 times as deadly as guns. To go in on the “assault weapon” laws from this angle, those laws tend to target rifles, rifles are ~10% of homicides, so cars are ~16 times as deadly as rifles.
Seriously, motor vehicles are one of the most deadly things out there that people routinely interact with, and driving is one of the most dangerous things people routinely do.
Just set the speed limit to 10mph and make everyone put a fin on their shifter and we should be good. Common sense.
There is no need to attack me for bringing up a point of view that’s different from yours. To answer your question, no, guns don’t require bad intentions to be misused. If someone causes harm but did not intend to, that scenario is called an accident. Have a nice day.
The responses to your comment are mind-blowingly stupid and small-minded. And that’s not even to mention the ones that totally misrepresent what you said. It’s very disappointing and disheartening.
Thank you. I really like the Lemmy community, but most are extremely anti-gun. I’ve been able to show multiple people IRL how much fun guns can be when used responsibly, but it’s much harder to do online.
But you absolutely don’t need to own a gun to have fun with one. You can go to a shooting range, they’ll give you one, you have your fun and go home. No everyday citizen owns a gun in that scenario, but fun was had. (This is how it works in the EU mostly.) I have had my fair share of fun with guns and I agree with you: they are indeed great fun! But I’ve never felt the need to own a gun because of that.
No gun ranges where I live. Very rural, tons of space. If I want to shoot a gun, the most practical way is - by far - simply owning it myself. I also trust myself to take care of it and keep it safe. Considering how far I’d have to drive to get to a gun range, and how unsafe driving is statistically… I’d say it’s also safest to take out that variable.
Not needing something is never a good argument to not have something. I don’t need the vast majority of the things I own, but I do have them.
I understand your point. Not necessarily agree, but understand.
Anybody that takes the sport of shooting seriously owns their gun. That’s also the way it was in much of the EU before gun laws there got stupid, especially in the UK, and that wasn’t even that long ago.
“Need” has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I’ll be honest, Lemmy has some of the worst showings of good faith discussion I’ve ever seen. I’m glad you like the community, but be careful not to spend too much time here. It’s already unwelcoming to many people, and I certainly see more and more extremist rhetoric on it every time I log in.
I grew up around guns and totally agree with you as far as that goes, but my larger point, the source of my disappointment where this discussion is concerned, is that people are misrepresenting what you actually said in the first place.
It’s one thing to disagree with an argument, but it’s an entirely different thing to disagree with an argument that no one actually made.
My complaint here is that most of the comments in opposition to your initial comment were made on the basis of bad-faith or idiot misunderstanding of your original point.
In other words, my complaint is not about anyone’s position so much as it is about how they use rational (or irrational) thoughts to arrive at said conclusions.
Don’t forget the other issue, half these people could actually agree with you, and they’d still cry and downvote, just because. For a place that was supposed to solve half the issues of Reddit, it’s just as bad if not worse.
Guns do not require someone with bad intentions use them in a bad way. A 4 year old near me blew her head off while her family was in the next room. Plenty of other people with no bad intentions have liked themselves and others with guns.
A 2 year old was killed in a car accident near me. We should get rid of cars.
Funny how nobody wants to realize its the same argument isn’t it? Same goes for DUIs fatalities and prohibition.
Thing is, I’m only half joking. Driving really is about the single most dangerous thing most of us do regularly, people don’t take it seriously enough. I’d much rather have viable public transportation options, but I live in the suburbs of Phoenix so that’s not going to happen in my lifetime.
I agree, the numbers are clear. But cars and prohibition aren’t good virtue signals to get people elected, so people don’t do it.
Also funny how nobody ever says you don’t “need” a car, and then tell you to take public transit.
Especially those cars with evil features like comfort shifter handles, and rear spoilers, you know, assault cars.
Who let a 2 year old drive
It was a wrong way driver. I can’t help but feel like the kid could have done better.
A 2 year old is not going to kill themselves operating a vehicle, unlike a gun. Even left unattended, they maybe put it in neutral.
Pretty sure I’ve heard of at least a couple cases where small children accidentally knocked a car into drive and caused serious damage, but that’s not really the point I was making…
Cars are still designed to keep the occupants safe during a collision. Toddler is going to live no matter what way that car is pointed, unless there’s a second car.
Accidental gun discharges don’t need a passing second gun to be fatal.
And knives, power tools, ladders, alcohol at celebrations. That rationale doesn’t work.
Let’s rephrase - someone with bad intentions or terrible safety practices.
NuCleAr wEapoNs DoNt KiLL PeOpLe
I mean… they have two modes of operation. The default mode is to save millions of lives, the other mode is to delete humanity.
So they do and don’t kill people.
It’s Schrodinger’s nuke
Hey look! A middle schooler…