PHOENIX (AP) – The 2024 presidential election is drawing an unusually robust field of independent, third party and long shot candidates hoping to capitalize on Americans’ ambivalence and frustration over a likely rematch between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump.

  • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

    • CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s crazy how people view voting. In life we have so many situations where we look at realistic options and choose the best thing, or even the least bad thing, from those options.

      But then with voting people feel like making their vote should be like wishing on a birthday cake. It’s totally irrational, as you say.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If we don’t accept that irrational people exist and do what we can to get their votes, we risk the return of Trump.

        But it’s way more fun to shout at them.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          One can’t cater to or court the irrational. We can however stop humoring them and giving them undeserved respect. That might lead more rational people to mistakenly consider them.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            One can’t cater to or court the irrational.

            Republicans keep doing it. They beat Clinton in 2016 by doing it.

            Centrist Democrats would rather lose than debase themselves by moving one Planck length to the left.

            • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              And it’s coming back to bite them in the ass. Further, condoning and catering to those views only speeds up the rotting brain mush that is the current American political psyche. Making it easier for fascist strong men to take over. On undeliverable promises of candy mountains and soda pop swimming pools. As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option. But they absolutely do need to promote themselves better.

              But Republicans have cornered the market on those who enjoy being lied to at infinitem. And it is simply not a viable tactic for democrats to even try to steal that group from them.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                And it’s coming back to bite them in the ass.

                So first it’ll never work, and now it works but it’s biting Republicans in the ass by… giving them control of the House and the Supreme Court. When you’re finally done moving goalposts, please return them.

                As a socialist largely opposed to Democrats neoliberal economic plans. I can still support them, as our best current possible option.

                Yeah, I can support them too. That doesn’t mean I need to shut up when I think they’re making stupid mistakes, particularly since they’re gonna blame me for the results regardless of who I vote for.

                • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Yes, in a long-term scope it will never work. The statements are not contradictory no matter how hard you try to imply that they are.

                  Love that straw man though. Why that’s even non sequitur. The thought process to contort from someone pointing out that they’re a socialist and disagree with Democrats. To claiming that critiquing democrats is inappropriate after immediately critiquing democrats. That’s such an odd claim that I’m inclined to ask if you were reading off the wrong script.

                  That said, in the context of presidential elections. One should NEVER consider 3rd party candidates until one of 2 things happen. First past the post voting is replaced with something better. Or said 3rd party has a presence in state or federal legislature of 10% of US states.

                  Criticize Democrats all you want. I sure do. In the meantime primary them, push them left. But don’t split the vote letting the ideal be the enemy of reality when it’s important. And it’s very important Trump never gets back in. Well important if you like even having an illusion of voting.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, in a long-term scope it will never work.

                    So, first you said it can’t work. I provided an example of it working. Then you moved the goalposts and said it’s biting Republicans in the ass. I pointed out that they gained power, not lost it. And now you’ve moved them again and said it can’t work long term. I didn’t say it needs to.

                    If it’s vital to the very continued existence of Democracy that Trump loses this next election, why are we not trying to get every vote we can, even from people who you consider irrational? It certainly never stopped the Democratic Party from moving to the right to court the few remaining irrational moderate Republicans who stay with that party even after what it’s become. Why is it always the left that has to think about the short term when we’re being screamed at to vote for the candidate who will maybe consider temporarily forestalling fascism because eventually the party will totally start listening to anyone to the left of Manchin? Why does the party never have to think about the short term and court people who it considers beneath their contempt so that they can forestall fascism?

                    That said, in the context of presidential elections. One should NEVER consider 3rd party candidates until one of 2 things happen. First past the post voting is replaced with something better. Or said 3rd party has a presence in state or federal legislature of 10% of US states.

                    At no point have I suggested voting for a third party. To the contrary, I think the Democratic party should work to get those votes back, because it needs them. But for some reason, that never works because of wherever you decide to put the goalposts this time.

                    Criticize Democrats all you want.

                    Sure, if you happen to like wild accusations.

    • Sybil@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I’m becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

      i would believe you were talking about people voting for republicans or people voting for democrats. everyone else is trying to avoid a further slide into fascism.