Hamas and Netanyahus rhetoric; name a more iconic due.
These fuckers fit hand and fucking glove.
Netanyahu: Hamas is a terrorist organization that wants to eliminate the Jewish nation
Hamas: yeah he’s right
That’s why Nethanyahu funded them.
All his investments paid off in this neat little casus belli.
He allowed Hamas to be funded but it’s still horrific the hand he had in making this monster. He allowed Hamas to grow so it would fight those looking to negotiate toward a two-state solution.
Proof or it didn’t happen
I think this is what @SlikPikker@lemmy.ca is talking about:
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.
Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.
Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.
Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
Excerpt from For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces by Tal Schneider and published by The Times of Israel.
Just so!
Nowhere does this say that Netanyahu funded Hamas.
Both of them have caused so much harm.
Like a well oiled meat grinder.
Hurricane of shit meeting tornado of blood
(bars)
Netanyahu does not state that killing of civilians is his goal, nor does IDF purposely do that. Imagine the amount of civilian deaths if it were actually IDF’s goal, as it is for Hamas.
Your argument might have more weight if the head of national security wasn’t a former member of the Kach party, a group Israel designated a terrorist group in 1994.
“When he came of age for conscription into the Israel Defense Forces at 18, he was exempted from service by the IDF due to his extreme-right political background.”
What a guy. I thought militaries (and police) love those people.
Israeli military is not for volunteers, it’s for everyone. The top ranking generals and chiefs of staff were prominent against Netanyahu and this extremist incompetent government. They are also said that human rights activists that give a voice to solders that saw atrocious acts of the idf itself. This is not the norm, contrary to what the media would have you think. This, according to the top ranking Israeli ex officers, is how the idf should fix its wrongs.
But they kill plenty anyway.
Oops?
Right human shields don’t exist
They bombed a refugee camp. Twice.
If I were a military commander in WW2 with the same technology we have today, and Hitler was out in the open at an elementary school graduation next to a preschool, I would not make that order. Instead, I’d mobilize intelligence agents to get there immediately and tail him, while moving my forces nearby.
I find it hard to believe that Israeli military and intelligence agencies could not track him and wait. The IDF just cares more about their own skin than they do of Palestinian children.
It took the US 10 years to track down Bin Laden, all the while he was still communicating with cells. In your example that is a LOT of quality holocaust time for Hitler.
There is no easy way out of the trolley problem of slippery genocidal targets popping up with a limited time window to execute.
Both can exist. Don’t get binary.
This is an important distinction in my opinion. Does the IDF care if they kill palestinian civilians? No. But they aren’t actively trying to murder as many palestinian civilians as they can either.
Being so incredibly nonchalant about killing civilians as the IDF is it’s almost an insignificant difference imo.
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They’re not doing their supporters any favours with these sort of comments lol
They shouldn’t have any fucking supporters. This is the shit all the anti-Israel people are supporting. I’m no fan of Netanyahu but wtf do they expect Israel to do? It’s like everyone forgot what prompted this and thinks Israel just woke up one morning and decided to raze everything because they were bored.
I’m no fan of Netanyahu but wtf do they expect Israel to do?
I expect them not to commit war crimes at a bare minimum.
Yes, not indiscriminately murdering civilians would be nice.
Are you suggesting that when Israel bombs a refugee camp and kills all those innocent people that somehow that is a reasonable response?
It’s a disproportionate response, and misdirected. But it is definitely a response to something real, which the more rabid anti-Israel types seem to gloss over.
It’s a war crime.
Probably, yes.
Israel has a right to defend itself, but they’re bombing refuge camps.
Yes it’s a humanitarian disaster through and through, and the government response is internationally humiliating for Israel. I felt the same way when the USA started carpet bombing Baghdad after 9/11, although that was far worse and made much less sense.
It’s genocide.
I’m not arrogant enough to think I have sufficient knowledge or access to reliable enough information to make that judgement. I can certainly say it’s a humanitarian disaster and tragedy.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
What did you expect? Do you think that hitting a wasp nest with a rod just once means you’ll only be stung once because you only hit it once? There’s no rule stating that the wasps must respond with equal magnitude. If people are now getting hurt, it’s because someone provoked the wasps. The notion that reactions must be proportionate to the offense is quite naive.
Idk what’s more hilarious here, the implication that a Palestinian baby deserves to die because of what Hamas did or the implication that Jews are hyperaggressive animals that are completely incapable of moral reasoning.
Are you focusing solely on the casualties involving children? Does that mean any location with children is off-limits for retaliation, providing a shield for adversaries because children are present? This is not a simple game of hide and seek, nor is it your idealistic world where a slap is met with a turned cheek.
It’s a common misconception that supporters of Israel are indifferent to the death of children or any civilian, for that matter, and you seem to be perpetuating this narrative. You choose the most objectionable point about an opponent to make an accusation, and, much like someone obstinately arguing without listening to reason, you consider yourself morally superior and in the right.
What, in your opinion, would be a suitable response to an attack from Hamas? Would peaceful protests, international condemnation, or sanctions suffice?
If you’ve discarded your spine, don’t assume everyone else has done the same. An entity without the ability to react appropriately can only succumb.
If I get stung by a wasp nest sitting on my neighbor’s house, I do not have the right to burn down my neighbor’s house with them in it.
Hamas, the IDF, and the Israeli are all murderers. They all have blood on their hands.
Your narrative would hold if it weren’t flawed; it’s an oversimplification. Let’s take your perspective where Hamas is the bees that stung Israel, and now Israel is retaliating against the land harboring the bee nest. (I use ‘bees’ here to distinguish from my earlier wasp analogy).
If your neighbor disliked the bees as much as you and agreed the nest was a problem, then certainly, destroying it with care to avoid collateral damage would be wise. However, the situation changes if your neighbor is a beekeeper who shields the bees in his home to protect them from you. If those bees become aggressive and harm your family, naturally, you’d first request the neighbor to remove the bees. Should they refuse, you’d have every right to seek external help. But what if the authorities do little, leaving you to suffer the stings while your neighbor faces minimal consequences? Rather than passively endure this, you might feel compelled to act independently to prevent future stings and deter the beekeeper from maintaining this threat.
Bullshit.
No government nor military should not get a carte blanche for murdering innocent civilians in the process of fighting a terrorist organization.
If you can’t figure that one out on your own, I’m not debating with you.
Okay, then let’s hypothetically say Israel forms a terrorist organization that doesn’t overlap with the Israeli government itself, would they then have the right to attack Gaza? This organization would essentially be in the same position relative to Israel as Hamas is to the Palestinians.
The way you debate reminds me of someone who might have abandoned their education prematurely. Are you going to complain to the teacher because you cannot acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed, incomplete, and biased? Your approach to this discussion is quite frankly, absurd.
These fuckers kidnapped US citizens, they deserve 100% of whatever bombs we throw at them until our people are freed.
Yes, because the US is a shining beacon of morality and peace.
Yes, those kids in that refugee camp had it coming I guess.
being both anti-israel and anti-hamas at the same time is the only correct position i don’t understand why this isn’t obvious
Because Hamas is the only resistance Palestinians have against the colonizer.
it isn’t, actually. they have a government with a prime minister and a president which oppose hamas and which netanyahu wants nobody to pay attention to because they are the legitimate path to statehood
Well then Netanyahu is doing a great job because I heard that Hamas was elected by the palestinians and I never heard about another Palestinian government.
it was elected a long time ago and since then they have fallen out of favor and there was never an election again
Yeah, what prompted this already ? can you remind us ?
You just gotta take that line of thought one step further. I believe in you.
I don’t 👍
What prompted this? You mean the decades of occupation? Or are you suggesting history only began with the Hamas attack?
Well, that not totally incorrect. The settlers starting moving in (before the nation was a thing) and started killing and displacing the existing inhabitants. It’s been bad from the start, though they have had periods that are better than others. People excuse Israel for what Hamas has done, but rarely do those same people forgive Hamas for what the Jewish settlers have done.
Personally, I don’t make a judgment on Hamas. They are a much weaker force against a much stronger force. If they fight a conventional war then they don’t stand a chance. Gorilla warfare/terrorism is the only viable option for them. Israel uses terrorism every day, but it’s only bad when Hamas does it?
I do judge Israel. They are a strong force, and more importantly are getting support from many other powerful nations. Until my country (the US) stops sending support, I will criticize their actions. I do not condone my money going towards what they do.
Which supporters? This is a boon to Vladimir Putin, as world attention and aid to Israel comes at a cost to support for Ukraine.
By escalating the conflict to a genocidal ground war, Israel’s criminal leaders may have doomed not only Israelis, but the people of Ukraine as well.
Which supporters?
People supporting the Palestinian side in this conflict
Don’t confuse support for Palestinians as support for Hamas.
People are already confusing the two, that’s why it’s an issue
It’s deliberate. If you don’t support Israel’s apartheid of Palestine, you are apparently antisemitic and want Israel destroyed.
Hamas is not helping things. They are bunch of murderous religious nutters. They do want Israel gone. Just like how Israel’s nutters want Palestine gone.
But Hamas are not Palestine anymore than Israel is its religious nutters.
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I support the innocent Palestinian people who are being slaughtered. Does that mean I support Hamas? Because I think Hamas is an Iranian puppet that wants a Palestinian caliphate run under Sharia law. I don’t think they help the Palestinian people either. So am I a Hamas supporter? By your definition, apparently.
I’m not sure what you think my definition was, can you expand on that part?
Well you seem to be implying that the support for Palestinians is support for Hamas.
I’m not saying it’s my personal opinion
The only issue I see are the dumbasses that cant tell the difference, supporting Palestinians doesn’t mean support for Hamas. But if you don’t think they need some sort of military support in one way or another you don’t need to be making comments about it and need to instead go back and read a little history about the Israelie Occupation and Crimes Against Humanity thats taken place. Hell you wouldn’t even have to go back in time very far but a year maybe less, but I suggest to get the full picture and decent understanding to allow yourself to come and discuss world topics with other adults that you start from the beginning.
The only issue I see are the dumbasses that cant tell the difference, supporting Palestinians doesn’t mean support for Hamas.
There’s a lot of dumbasses out there, which is sorta the issue.
Not to condone their actions, but what would Hamas care about getting supporters? Palestine situation hasn’t been helped much at all by international supporters, so it’s not like they care about that.
The two are linked together. When aid has been sent to Palestine, to help Palestinians, Hamas has taken it for themselves. There was an EU project I believe to build water infrastructure, and Hamas took it apart to make into rockets.
I don’t think it’s possible to provide material support to the Palestinians. Hamas just takes it all. It’s so fucked.
Palestine is dependent on foreign aid to continue its war fighting. Specifically aid from western nations. They need supporters to feed, fuel and supply it’s military and populace.
Might make people less happy to support pummeling them if they weren’t acting like such villains
Yeah why would they use civilians as human shields to gather the physical and online support of the easily misled and swayed masses of the west
Not to condone their actions, but what would Hamas care about getting supporters?
For one, all the Hamas supporters are asking the US to tell Israel to stop attacking them.
It’s easy to support Palestinian statehood. Anyone that supports Hamas is a moron.
I was about to say, who’s out there supporting hamas
The tankies are all over it, actually.
Fucking deranged tankies man, their Lord and Savior Hasan Abi has been going off about how “baby settlers” are valid military targets. These people yearn to live under a propaganda-military dictatorship.
It’s crazy because I’m pretty sure a lot of them would be considered “undesirables” in the societies they claim to want to live in.
Well I’ve done some maths, and I’m pretty sure the IDF can kill the population of Gaza faster than Hamas can kill the population of Israel.
That’s exactly what Hamas wants to see because that’s what gets Israeli to lose international support and prompts Arab nations to invade.
They don’t give a shit about the Palestinian people.
Not lost them a lot of international support so far, I’ll be honest.
While they may still be reeling from the loss of Bolivia, the people they do business with on a daily basis have picked their sides and stuck to it.
Nobody is going to invade for humanitarian reasons. That only happens for very weak nations that have no international support.
The government of Israel has amazing international support, first class weaponry, outclassing all of its neighbors militaries by orders of magnitude, and a ambiguous nuclear strike capability.
They could literally take every one of their oppressed civilians, drop them into a vat of acid, live streaming on the internet indefinitely, and nobody’s going to invade.
Give countries something to fight over, some material resource, and there will be a war, water, energy, access to trade, but humanitarian philosophies are things few people are willing to die for.
Who said anything about humanitarian invasions? Why are you arguing against something you made up?
You said That’s exactly what Hamas wants to see because that’s what gets Israeli to lose international support and prompts Arab nations to invade.
I had assumed your Arab nation invasion was due to the death of Palestinian civilians. In your scenario why are the Arab nations invading?
Because from their perspective someone invaded their land and is now vulnerable to getting kicked off it. The only reason Israel exists is because it’s supported by the US and Europe. Take away that support and Israel goes away.
The intended result for Hamas is for Israel to respond with actions that erode the very support that they depend on for security against invasion from surrounding arab nations that don’t need any new reasons to attack Israel apart from the very existence of Israel in the first place.
Even if all external countries cut off military aid, Israel still is sitting on nuclear weapons. It’s unlikely anyone would try to invade them, they don’t want to get nuked.
But in this scenario over the course of 5 to 10 years, they would be less able to power project beyond their borders. That’s true.
But let’s not forget the The geographic neighbors, the military peers, are incredibly weak. So Israel becoming weak doesn’t really make their jobs any easier
Hamas saw that Bibi is digging a giant hole for himself and said “I want in”
Have Hamas ever heard of endlings? It’s the last of a species before it goes extinct.
You will run out of Palestinians to get bombed before that.
Whelp… ya gotta have a hobby.
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At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamas leaders are actually undercover IDF
So, just to be clear, you’re saying that the attack against Israel was actually a secret Jewish conspiracy to make Hamas look bad?
Stop equating israelis to Jews
More like a way to give Israel a casus belli to turn Gaza into a parking lot.
Not saying that’s what happened, but as far as theofascist stayed go I wouldn’t be surprised
Didn’t Netanyahu prop up Hamas? That’s all the info I need to know. That and one conversation with a Zionist, they are out of their mind and will straight up say that Palestinians don’t deserve to live. That conversation was over a decade ago and it still gives me the creepy crawlys… it was like talking to a proud Nazi that firmly believed in his ideology.
Zionists fall under the category of most religious extremeist- stupid and dangerous. If we could drop all zionists in a hunger games scenario with all members of hamas, maybe throw the Catholic Church in there too.
Except nobody wins we just burn it down when they’re done killing each other like they’re going to do anyway.
Israel ≠ Jews. Why are you repeating Hamas talking points?
Ever heard of a false flag attack?
Yes. Repeatedly and constantly. It’s the rallying cry of the morons. Reality doesn’t fit my worldview so it’s reality that’s wrong!
