Just a person who is a part of the lesbian community but uses he/him pronouns.
Specifically people who we would now describe as transmen (assigned female at birth but identify as male) who are attracted to women (or other transmen) who historical have been considered dykes/lesbians/butches/whatever and thus were part of the lesbian community. A 50 year old person as described above who has always been part of the lesbian community but prefers he/him pronouns shouldn’t be excluded now but also shouldn’t have to use different pronouns to be part of it, thus he/him lesbian.
Pretty much just a queer history fun fact that happens to be actual people alive today.
Ah, so you would consider that labelling as a kind of carveout for those who would likely have identified as transmen in our current culture, but are so embedded into lesbian culture that it’s kinda hard to dissociate with it despite the new identify?
Though I will ask, to identify as a guy but still identify as a lesbian, doesn’t that kind of dilute the aspect of identifying as a guy - essentially being one foot out and one foot in?
I don’t mean to offend, I’m just not fully understanding it.
Ya, a reasonable argument could probably be made that it is a bit contradictory but I guess people who identify as such consider it a better description than the alternatives. Not really an expert on the topic so I can’t really give a better answer
This is so confusing. Are their partners lesbian? Lesbians like girls, but these people identify as boys. So only straight women would date them, except they have female tackle, so straight women won’t date them, only lesbians partners will do. But lesbians like she/her so we are back to square one. Who dates them?
People who ask them out that they say yes to. I’m a straight man who doesn’t have much experience with these kind of things, but I’m pretty sure you’re overthinking it
Pan. These folks are pansexual and non-gender conforming.
Beyond that it’s a free-for-all.
Whether they prefer pronouns or not is individual to them. Whether they identify as lesbian or not is up to them. Whether they embrace “queer” as a rollup identity or not is up to them.
You’re asking all these questions like they care to answer them. They do not. They want to do their own thing and be their own best version of themselves and date like-minded people.
You can be straight and date someone who is trans. Genitalia is only one part of a person’s body/gender, intercourse is only one part of sex, and sex is only one part of a relationship. (and for some, sex isn’t even part of a relationship)
When it comes to relationships with queer people (which, to be clear, I think is everyone to some extent), you gotta first think of sexuality and gender as a spectrum, because if you’re thinking in traditional gender binaries, there just isn’t a good way of explaining many things.
Trying to fit gender non-conformists and different sexual orientations into a hetero-normative binary is like taking the visible light spectrum and then trying to describe it in terms of black and white. It’s at best going to be a very poor representation of what’s actually there that doesn’t get you any closer to actually understanding things.
Just a person who is a part of the lesbian community but uses he/him pronouns.
Specifically people who we would now describe as transmen (assigned female at birth but identify as male) who are attracted to women (or other transmen) who historical have been considered dykes/lesbians/butches/whatever and thus were part of the lesbian community. A 50 year old person as described above who has always been part of the lesbian community but prefers he/him pronouns shouldn’t be excluded now but also shouldn’t have to use different pronouns to be part of it, thus he/him lesbian.
Pretty much just a queer history fun fact that happens to be actual people alive today.
Ah, so you would consider that labelling as a kind of carveout for those who would likely have identified as transmen in our current culture, but are so embedded into lesbian culture that it’s kinda hard to dissociate with it despite the new identify?
Though I will ask, to identify as a guy but still identify as a lesbian, doesn’t that kind of dilute the aspect of identifying as a guy - essentially being one foot out and one foot in?
I don’t mean to offend, I’m just not fully understanding it.
I’m trans and ace and this stuff confuses the everloving fuck out of me. A lot of stuff confuses me though, so I don’t judge.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Ya, a reasonable argument could probably be made that it is a bit contradictory but I guess people who identify as such consider it a better description than the alternatives. Not really an expert on the topic so I can’t really give a better answer
If they are lesbians, shouldn’t the be attracted to transwomen rather than transmen?
Correct, trans men are men, and makes them either a gay trans man, or a straight woman with he/him pronouns.
This is so confusing. Are their partners lesbian? Lesbians like girls, but these people identify as boys. So only straight women would date them, except they have female tackle, so straight women won’t date them, only lesbians partners will do. But lesbians like she/her so we are back to square one. Who dates them?
People who ask them out that they say yes to. I’m a straight man who doesn’t have much experience with these kind of things, but I’m pretty sure you’re overthinking it
Pan. These folks are pansexual and non-gender conforming.
Beyond that it’s a free-for-all.
Whether they prefer pronouns or not is individual to them. Whether they identify as lesbian or not is up to them. Whether they embrace “queer” as a rollup identity or not is up to them.
You’re asking all these questions like they care to answer them. They do not. They want to do their own thing and be their own best version of themselves and date like-minded people.
You can be straight and date someone who is trans. Genitalia is only one part of a person’s body/gender, intercourse is only one part of sex, and sex is only one part of a relationship. (and for some, sex isn’t even part of a relationship)
When it comes to relationships with queer people (which, to be clear, I think is everyone to some extent), you gotta first think of sexuality and gender as a spectrum, because if you’re thinking in traditional gender binaries, there just isn’t a good way of explaining many things.
Trying to fit gender non-conformists and different sexual orientations into a hetero-normative binary is like taking the visible light spectrum and then trying to describe it in terms of black and white. It’s at best going to be a very poor representation of what’s actually there that doesn’t get you any closer to actually understanding things.
This is one of the articles I sent my brother to help explain things to him, hopefully that helps reframe things for you in a way that’s helpful in understanding things better.
This is a pretty good answer for those of us who fully support people dating whoever they like but don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it.
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