I’m so absolutely sick of it.
Literally argued with a bunch of game-pass supporters on this very topic today, where we don’t own shit anymore and everything is rental only. Sick of people gobbling corporate cock.
Years ago I had been out of multiplayer gaming for a number of years and had really only had experiences with PC games, where multiplayer is/was just this standard thing. You already bought the game, playing multiplayer with other people is just a thing you can hop on and do whenever you want for free (provided there’s other people to play). I owned consoles, but never played multiplayer games on them, so never dealt with game passes or anything like that.
When my oldest son started getting into gaming, we wanted to play couch co-op on an Xbox game, but then ran into a problem with it requiring an Xbox game pass for a co-op mode (it had been couch co-op in previous games from the series; basically a horde mode where you go against bots, so no reason to go online). Requiring a game pass for that just seemed like a shit way to get more subscriptions.
When I complained about it on Reddit, people swarmed to tell me what a jackass I was and that of course you have to subscribe to play with game pass, like what kind of world was I living in where I expected free multiplayer gaming? Apparently I hadn’t realized what a golden age I had lived in when something like free multiplayer gaming was just a standard thing.
That’s been my experience as well, the dogpiling crap. I even had someone argue “How are businesses supposed to stay alive if they don’t charge monthly!” – and they couldn’t agree that the business could create new IP, or create new games, instead of sitting on the same game for 10+ years.
Apparently I hadn’t realized what a golden age I had lived in when something like free multiplayer gaming was just a standard thing
This was literally never a thing on consoles, so maybe that’s the issue?
Multiplayer gaming was and generally still is totally free on PC, but consoles don’t have the infrastructure to pull from and have charged since they launched the feature.
For couch co-op?
The issue there is that the game co-op always goes through their servers.
Games that don’t run their multiplayer that way don’t have this issue, but as multiplayer continues to transition to remote play rather than couch co-op it will likely continue to spread.
You said that (free co-op) was literally never a thing on consoles. It has been a thing since Pong.
I assumed that someone reading this conversation would apply context and thus understand what I was talking about.
I remember Dreamcast, PS2, and Xbox’s online service not being charged…?
Xbox live was absolutely a paid service
At E3 2002 Microsoft unveiled its plans to establish an online gaming service for the Xbox called Xbox Live. The membership fee was set at $49.99 a year, which is what it still costs today. Microsoft was adamant about getting users online quickly and easily
Dreamcast doesn’t really count as it was more of just a modem, and PS2 initially had no online capabilities. I still get wistful over what Dreamcast could have been.
Nevertheless, due to lack of widespread broadband adoption at the time, the Dreamcast shipped with only a dial-up modem while a later-released broadband adapter was neither widely supported nor widely available. Downloadable content was available, though limited in size due to the narrowband connection and the size limitations of a memory card.[23] The PlayStation 2 did not initially ship with built-in networking capabilities
I don’t remember basic multiplayer access was paid service for Xbox, but that maybe me confusing things with Playstation 3’s PSN not requiring it. Also, doesn’t count? Really? So if it doesn’t agree with you, it doesn’t count?
Dreamcast had no servers to play from. It has an internal modem. So yes, that’s not what we’re talking about and doesn’t count
Do you understand the difference in that technology? Genuinely asking here - do you know what a modem is?
You mean there exist online game that doesn’t have any host at the end point? So games like Phatasy Star Online runs on magic? I’m genuinely asking here.
So if you connect with modem, it isn’t multiplayer? If you connect third-party servers, it isn’t multiplayer? Connection doesn’t care what hardware is present at end point - all it care is that it satisfies authentication then following byte stream is correctly formatted. The fact that it is console doesn’t magically make it require different kind of infrastructure from PC to begin with unless someone forces to.
So what is definition of console multiplayer for you anyway? It clearly seems to be not “A session of a game where multiple players are involved locally or via internet” based on what you are saying so far.
That’s kind of a bad comparison…you’re continually paying Adobe for (generally) one program that you’re going to use every day for years. It would actually make sense to just pay a lump sum upfront and then again maybe a few years later for a newer version.
With Gamepass, you’re paying for access to many games, each of which you’re going to play for a relatively short time before moving on to another game. If you spend a lot of time gaming and enjoy novelty, it makes a lot of sense.
No they’re the same. Just because you like one over the other doesn’t change that.
GP really isn’t that bad imo. There’s much better examples.
With GamePass, all the games are still available to buy, often both in the Xbox store and Steam. You also get a discount if you do want to buy it.
But with streaming services, it’s much worse since you can’t often buy the media. You’re forced to use their service every time you want to watch it.
That applies to all digital store fronts and isn’t specific to game pass.
No, this is mistaken. If a digital storefront sells their media in a DRM-free format, you receive the files in an unrestricted way, similar to if you bought a physical book, movie, or album.
Unrestricted is not to say given permission to copy and distribute as you’d like, but that’s the same as for physical media.
Okay sure, for DRM-free storefronts that’s true but I’m talking about arguing that Game Pass is somehow worse than say Steam when the reality is that you can lose all your content on both storefronts. Most aren’t DRM-free, which is the issue.
Steam’s DRM is optional for publishers at least, and many titles are DRM free. You also at least have access to the files so you can attempt to bypass it.
Fwiw I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t really understand why/what for. Game Pass isn’t really comparable to Steam or a digital storefront anyway, which already makes the comparison kind of silly. That said, I recognize you were going off the other commenter’s framing in the argument there, so not faulting you for following along with it. I did just the same in my reply before giving it some more thought with this one.
Nevertheless, it is worse in terms of ownership, but that was never its selling point to begin with, so it’s silly to criticize it in that respect, much as it would be to criticize Netflix for not providing ownership of what it gives access to. Also regarding Steam DRM, xcjs covers that nicely in the other reply here.
You already don’t own anything since PC games went digital, I pay the equivalent of 5 USD for gamepass in Brazil, while new games are reaching 80 dollars in price, I will sooner pirate everything than pay that full price.
It’s always ethical to pirate from Adobe.
Or use Monkrus to get pre-cracked versions 😎
Monkrus does some good Adobe stuff, never had any problems with them
Tangentially related… I work IT in a CNC shop. Most engineering prints that we get to make parts to have various specs on them for materials and various finishes. Those specs used to be free years ago, but they’ve most all been replaced, but not really updated at all. Now everytime they have a revision change, we have to buy the new revision from SAE for like $70 a piece. As shitty as that already is, in recent years, they have DRM locked them to a single user. So while we have 50+ employees with multiple needing to reference these for quality inspection or processing, it’s against the ToS to share those specs. We are supposed to buy one for each user which is fucking bogus.
Fuck em. I screen snip each page and make a new PDF, or that one user prints it out and scans it in. The extra kicker is that while that’s not allowed, you can buy a paper copy that can be shared for the same cost, you just have to wait for it to be delivered.
Same with ISO docs. Imagine being required by law to follow specs you have to pay to know.
Imagine being required by law to follow specs you have to pay to know.
Relevant case law:
TL;DR: once “annotations” or “model codes” or whatever are incorporated into the actual law, they are no longer eligible for copyright.
That doesn’t stop organizations like SAE and ISO from trying to bully and trick you into agreeing to pay them for copies that you obtain directly from them instead of trudging down to the local law library and making copies yourself, however. (And it’s even worse when you want convenient electronic copies instead of paper, because then they try to apply EULA bullshit, which I’ve already debunked in another comment.) IMO it’s probably best to get the documents from some third-party source so you never get on the standards org’s radar for a shakedown to begin with.
I approve this in spirit, but is this safe from an audit?
All of the audits we have to do, yea. They just care that we making good parts, that our paperwork is filled out correctly, and processes are being followed. Technically, if we didn’t have any of the specs but still did the process correctly, they wouldn’t care.
deleted by creator
it doesn’t work on these documents, come on. the DRM they have on these is pretty solid.
deleted by creator
As someone that had to deal with adobe for 5 years for an 800 person studio. Fuck Adobe. For the rest of forever.
I signed up for creative cloud and accidentally signed for a year. They want 60$ to cancel the subscription. Suck my taint.
How is that even legal
Unlike most online services that essentially do not offer refunds (you just ride out the subscription), Adobe has created more of a carrier type plan, where there is a yearly contract so it accrues the same penalty like any phone plan.
So yeah, legal. Just the worst kind of legal. And that’s Adobe. Just the worst kind.
Hahahaaha omg ! This is hilarious. Thanks bro
Was it recent (and can you get the credit card agency to revert it?)
3 months in - it’s Definitely my bad
Change your subscription to something else, this resets the counter. You can now cancel without fines.
Whaaaa that works?
I did it a few months back, and immediately cancelled the new plan with no fees, worked a treat. Also FYI the educational discount is pretty great, I set mine up with my daughters email address no issues, I’m not sure how much they check this as it’s not a school email address.
No it’s always been that way. They have adopted a similar subscription as phone carriers. If you cancel early, you face a penalty.
Most other subscriptions don’t actually let you cancel and receive a refund (you just ride out the sub). But, that’s Adobe. They’ll always find the worst, shittiest way to make it happen.
I mean it’s the same company that held the internet down with Flash, that at one point was the top source of nearly all malware through a browser.
Are you still stuck with this? My brother did the same not long ago, but I found a way to cancel the subscription without having to pay anything!
Hey adobe, how about you stop contacting everyone in our organization using a single non-profit license of a single product and telling them we should all be on a single cloud account so we can pay several times more for the same thing just to get access to sharing services no one wants?
They emailed our entire organization saying their license were expiring which resulted in 100s of calls to our service desk. Fucking hate Adobe.
This a thousand times. Maybe literally. They just won’t stop harassing us.
Firefox is getting the ability to edit PDFs. Its not quite ready for prod so I use SumatraPDF
Foxit is great too
If you think Adobe is bad just wait until you have to deal with Autodesk.
I managed to drag my audit out for months by just playing an absolute idiot and telling them all my licenses can be found by logging in at autodesk.com and then giving them excruciatingly detailed instructions on how to get to the administration page.
They’re both bad
Ah yes true sysadmin energy in this post
A friend of mine is about to be interested in digital photography and is soon going to commit on a photo finishing suite. She already attended some courses and - of course - the mayority of those had users of and applications from Adobe, usually Lightroom and Co.
I know Adobe is scum (fuck Adobe), she knows Adobe is “bad”. I think I could steer her into free and/or open source or one-time-pay software but for this I have to have an alternative that is a viable substitute, especially to Lightroom.
As for alternatives I know of Darktable, Capture One, Affinity Photo and RawTherapee.
Any more recommendations? Or an opinion on these or other products?
Thanks for your help!
Darktable is the closest, but it’s still missing a ton of features that are basic in Lightroom.
Lightroom and Photoshop are unfortunately good products with shitty licensing.
Just curious, what are the biggest features that you feel Darktable lacks? I use it occasionally but haven’t noticed any huge gaps from LR.
Lots of the AI related stuff is a big draw for current Lightroom. There’s also a lack of Adobe colors, which aren’t a need unless you’re printing a lot
Full disclosure It’s been a bit since I’ve used it, but I may try to import the ~800gb photo library I have into it again and give it another shot
Version 4 has been a decent upgrade. I still have some gripes with the overall behavior and interface, but it’s very capable software.
With the exception of AI Denoise the AI stuff is of little interest to me. I got in on the Kickstarter for Abode and am hoping that will be a suitable paid alternative.
I use and love Affinity. Back on v1 I used RawTherapee to do the initial conversion, then AP for the “photoshop part”… but in v2 the raw conversion in AP is pretty good, so I just use that for my whole workflow.
Capture One fan here. Good software buy they are also pushing towards subscriptions although you still have the option to buy and get support for one year as well. Affinity Photo is similar to Photoshop and had a great price, but has less tutorials out there.
Yeah same. And capture one don’t work on Linux too.
I like Darkroom and use it exclusively. Cons are it’s slow as beans, even on my decent machine. Pros are it has a ton of features. Another con is no AI tools built in, and it has a steeper learning curve because it doesn’t have the automatic adjustment tools Lightroom does. You can get a better result but it takes work.
This is just one reason why 2013 was basically the worst year ever. I’ll never forgive or forget what Adobe had done that year. It’s just insane.
Ah yes, the beginning of the subscription apocalypse that masked a 50% increase to annual cost behind a “cheaper monthly charge”. While I miss my time as a photographer, I’ll never miss Adobe.
That was the reason I lost my interest in animation completely.
Have you had a look at the Affinity suite? It certainly can’t replace everything, but for many users like me it’s not really missing anything for a one time payment.
They have -30% sales sometimes. I actually bought the whole suite at 50% discount some years back, but I don’t think they’ve had another 50% discount for a long time now.
If you’re interested in any of the Affinity programs, keep an eye out for sales. I’m guessing the next one will be Black Friday / Cyber Monday.
Fuck Adobe.
If you’re some dude who edits photos for his kids or makes bday cards for their family, there’s literally a dozen or more free image editors that work just fine.
If you’re in the industry, then you’ll quickly see no client will accept or work with an affinity file. Or a gimp file. Or a photomater file.
Adobe is the de facto standard and their monopoly is only getting worse. It also doesn’t help that schools are basically shills for Adobe. So every kid comes out knowing Illustrator and Photoshop and nothing else.
Adobe’s monopoly extends far beyond “software.”
Our company is using nitro pro for editing PDF.
I hate that people try to edit PDFs.
There’s a hundred formats more suited to editing.
It’s very common in the medical and legal analyst fields. There’s a lot of scanned paper in those industries.
Scans are just rasterized images. There are many formats more suitable for scanning and then editing, and some of them are even embedded inside PDF.
Ugh. You just reminded me of the time I asked for a CSV file from a customer and got a .doc file.
Inside it was a screenshot of the CSV file opened in Excel.
I was just impressed that somebody could misuse so much software so badly.
I’ve still never recovered from the time I asked someone for a screenshot of an error they were getting and they literally printed their screen, circled the error, scanned it with our copier, then copied and pasted that into a Word document and attached that document to a reply email.
deleted by creator
I worked with somebody that couldn’t grasp that Word was not an email program.
Every time she had to send an email she’d open Word, type it up, then File>Send by Email…
She also installed “Incredimail” every week and thought library was pronounced “lyeberry”
Accountant?
The number of times I’ve received a file that was or could have been a CSV extract is insane.
At least Excel has gotten pretty good at extracting text.
Still, not much worse than receiving an Excel file with an embedded PDF.
One of those businesses where the accountant, the IT manager, and the person who locks up in the evening are all the same person.
And the only qualification they have for any of these roles is that they’ve been there the longest.
GIMP, Da Vinci Resolve, Blender
Inkscape, krita
Yeah these are way better than gimp
GIMP is painfully behind the times that I only use it out of sympathy for FOSS. I even prefer Photopea despite half the working area wasted on ads and browser UI.
Maybe that’ll change one day.
Every single time Adobe is mentioned, everyone rushes to mention GIMP. I’m convinced 90% of them have never even opened GIMP before.
This makes me sad. I usually only use GIMP for programmer art. I didn’t realize it was falling behind 😞
If it works for you that’s great! it’s sadly just not the photoshop contender it used to be 😮💨
Paint.net I like still!
And if your like me and need Substance you can buy a perpetual licence on Steam
I’ve been able to steer 2 companies and my own business to adobe alternatives. Fuck, paying rent on software.
