Necessary information when applying, especially for a non-Green county (on CA CCW GC map)
OPENING
The Contra Costa County (CoCoCo) Sheriff’s Office (SO) is issuing CCWs for “Heightened Good Cause” (GC) – yellow on the CA CCW GC map (see post #3 below). We haven’t won CoCoCo since it is not green. A year ago CoCoCo had just under 300 active 2-yr Carry Concealed Weapons permits (CCWs). With suitable outreach and the information in this thread, you guys could make it 10x that – 3,000 CCWers in just a few years. While you may still not qualify, the more people who get issued now means fewer applicants will be clogging up the application process if we win a Right to Bear Arms in federal court (by 2022 July 01). Plus, hopefully, as time goes by and Sheriff Livingston has few, if any, problems with CCWers, he may loosen up his GC standard to light green, issuing for risks due to recreation or hobbies (like 3-gun matches), or other risks that are avoidable (like walking alone along isolated beaches, hiking, backpacking), where a lot more people will qualify.
This post is to provide law-abiding CoCoCo gun owners with insight into the process to determine whether they would qualify under Sheriff Livingston’s current Good Cause standard. I’ve spent almost 50 hours over the past few weeks in making this. (N.B. I do not live in CoCoCo.) I read almost 400 posts going back to 2015 Jan 01 (#674), separating out posts re. applying using self defense/personal protection that depended upon winning the Peruta case, from those not depending upon it and using more substantial Good Cause. My guess is that, for whatever reason, Livingston loosened his GC standard slightly about 1 to 2 years ago.
I received input from several CGNers who’ve gotten CoCoCo CCWs. Most have been CGN members for several years and have made several thousand of posts, so I trust them. Only one had been a member for just under 2 years and has made under 100 posts but what they shared was consistent with the others. From all of them I learned what worked for them and over a dozen other people and what didn’t for three.
PRELIMINARY MATTER (Extremely important!!!)
(1) Concealed Carry in California is not about the federal Constitution’s 2nd Amendment “Right to Keep & Bear Arms”. The Ninth Circuit en banc in Peruta said there is no 2nd A Right to Concealed Carry (and SCOTUS declined to review that decision). What you’re applying for is a CCW license to exercise a privilege under California state law. That’s the perspective of the sheriffs and chiefs because that’s the current state of the law for California. Make it your perspective when applying, even though you may believe it is wrong. Bringing up the 2nd Amendment won’t get you anywhere and will just annoy them. Don’t do it.
(2) Concealed Carry requires a license (CCW) under CA state law. When you hear “license” (or “permit”) think “permission slip”. You are requesting a permission slip to exercise a privilege of legally concealed carrying a handgun. This sucks and sounds unconstitutional, but it’s the current state of the law. Thank God Trump is president so SCOTUS should fix this sorry state of affairs. But don’t expect the sheriff to fix it – he’s in law enforcement. He’s not into making or judging laws. Don’t try to debate the point. Even if you win, you won’t win.
(3) A CA CCW is a May Issue license, not Shall Issue. Getting a driver’s license at the DMV is Shall Issue. There you can wear a pro marijuana T-shirt, hippie shorts and flip-flops and sneer down your nose ring at the DMV Lady and still get your license. Not so here. When you hear “May Issue”, think “Mother may I?” That should be your attitude because that’s the power the sheriff has over whether he grants you a CCW or not. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Once again: this is not about getting to carry under our federal Constitution’s 2nd A, but under our state’s statutory law. So far, as far as the 9th Circuit is concerned, we don’t have a RBA to Concealed Carry under the 2nd A (Peruta) and they’re still figuring out what to decide re. Open Carry (Young, Nichols and Flanagan cases). If you want to legally carry now, you have to play by the rules of the game as they are now. Otherwise, just wait until the federal courts sort things out.
If you only want to carry under the 2nd A, don’t apply for a CA CCW permit and remain unarmed in public in CA for a year or more until the federal courts decide what public carry right is enshrined in the 2nd A. (Will it be OC? CC? both? loaded? w/o permit or can a permit be required?) This thread is for those who’d rather CC under our state’s permitting scheme until then. I keep harping on this because we, on CGN, are always talking about the 2nd A and various court battles over it. It will be easy for you to slip back into that way of thinking during your permit application process and talking during the interview — DON’T!!!
THE SHERIFF’S POSSE
I address this first only because it is the source of much rumor, speculation and innuendo. In fact, it is the least important of my main points.
Some knew the Sheriff from the Posse, others didn’t and aren’t even members.
Joining the Posse requires endorsing signatures of two current Posse members. In a sense, they vouch for your character, giving the sheriff more confidence that you’re normal/stable/responsible/mature. If you don’t normally travel in those social circles, meeting and getting to know two members well enough to vouch for you can be a significant hurdle. Even if you do, you have to wait for an opening to join, and simply being a member is not sufficient. (Yes, more than one person joined just to get a CCW and still got denied.) If you regularly attend their events, you’ll eventually meet the sheriff and he’ll get to know you outside of the CCW app process. Then, when your application comes across the his desk, you’re not “a stranger off of the street” to him. Neither extortion or bribery are involved, but it does smack of elitism & cronyism. (What chance does a poor, single mother who lives in a crime ridden section of Richmond, doesn’t have a car, takes public transportation to her two jobs, has been attacked more than once and raped have of getting two sponsors to join the Posse?) Posse membership is $100/year. List it on a separate page of general info about you, along with other charitable work.
Meeting the sheriff one-on-one at a Posse event might take a year or more. Unless you’re into hobnobbing, entering golf tournaments, formal dinners and you’d want to join regardless of getting a CCW, it may not be worth the time, money and effort involved since it isn’t a sure bet and isn’t necessary, even though it can help. https://www.cocoposse.com/
Bottom line: joining the Posse could help you, but is not necessary if your GMC (Good Moral Character), GC and Interview are solid by the Sheriff’s standard.
GOOD MORAL CHARACTER
Best is clean criminal background check: no misdemeanors or felonies. Ideally, you haven’t had any contact with LEOs for “drama,” even if there were no charges (domestic disturbance calls, auto accidents, etc), or they get dismissed/dropped.
What can you do to help the sheriff determine that you have GMC? Do you support law enforcement charities, do volunteer work (local animal shelter, homeless shelter, suicide help line, clinics, youth mentor programs, retirement homes, etc.)? Attach on a separate sheet of paper. Can you provide reference letters from those organization, or from other people the Sheriff would respect? None of this is required, but nothing is refused. Show that you are a “pillar of the community”, invested in the community, and of exemplary, not just good, moral character. All this will help the SO in their assessment of your character. The Sheriff says he evaluates “the whole person” in making his decision. You don’t want your “whole person” to just say "Self Defense.”
Look at the causes that the Posse Charity funds to find the organizations the sheriff obviously approves of. https://www.cocoposse.com/sheriff-s-charities#!
An alternative to the Posse could be the 100 Club where Livingston is on the board. http://100clubcontracostacounty.org/
GOOD CAUSE
Treat the application like a resume (no mistakes, no misspellings, etc) and treat your GC statement like a writing sample for a job application. It should be “cogent and concise” (every word should have a purpose, a reason for being there), and “well thought out and presented”. It is your one chance to talk directly to Sheriff Livingston re. why he should permit you to carry a gun, and it’s his only chance to size you up, beyond just what you’re trying to convey with it about Good Cause per se. List your GC justifications as bullet points from most important to least. Each bullet point should be only a short paragraph (a few sentences at most). Have a logical order of the phrases within each sentence and the sentences within each paragraph. Make your thoughts flow linearly from beginning to end. Check your grammar, punctuation and spelling. Work on it, refine it, over a week or two since it is your only chance to talk directly to the sheriff. Be prepared to discuss your GC justifications with the interviewer.
Continued below!
The SO will issue you a CCW to advance public safety, not for your own personal safety, so you have to prove (1) a Bad Guy is targeting you (e.g., a crazy ex you have a restraining order against), (2) there’s something work related that makes you particularly vulnerable to attack (e.g., female RE agent showing houses while alone), or (3) work/occupation related Good Causes that make you a target: usually involve carrying lots of cash (e.g., rent collection, night deposits for businesses), work equipment (worth several thousands of dollars), guns (FFL, NRA Instructor/RSO), drugs (MD/DDS), or other valuables (Au/Ag coin dealer, jeweler, etc.). It should be something that the average CoCoCo voter would read and think, “Yeah, it makes sense they were allowed to carry a gun.” Remember the sheriff’s “boss” are the voters of CoCoCo. They — and CA — aren’t what they used to be back in the 1980s when Ronald Reagan won CA twice, or even the mid 2000s when Richard Pombo represented the 11th Congressional District. Provide evidence to prove each reason you give for the existence of GC (e.g., restraining order against stalker ex; copies of regular large cash deposits of tenants’ rents; relevant business or professional licenses, photographs of your equipment, recent photos of you using said equipment in remote locales, etc.). Attach all those documents in the order that you list your GC reasons. Bring a binder with the originals in clear plastic sheet holders in case they want to see/photocopy them themselves.
GC is not about your badass tactical training. But if you have completed a Hunter Safety course, or anything with “Safety” in the title, put that down. GC is not about your past military service (in whatever branch or capacity). Whatever you did with guns in the military (and it probably didn’t involve a concealed handgun) is only good for showing you can be entrusted carrying a handgun. In CoCoCo, GC is not about your general fear about rising crime rates – being “paranoid” is a non-starter. It is not about protecting you for hobbies or activities that are optional for you. You want a permit because transporting guns to 3-gun matches puts you at elevated risk? Stop shooting 3-gun matches instead. (Protection for hobbies or recreational activities that put you at risk would work if CoCoCo were light or dark green on the map. It isn’t.)
If your GC primarily involves your work/occupation and that requires you to travel out of state, mention you have a non-resident CCW and carry when you are on the job out-of-state. N.B. If your GC does not involve work that requires traveling out of state, non resident CCWs, especially several, can make you look like a “gun nut” obsessed with carrying a gun.
THE INTERVIEW
Everyone who submits an application and passes the background check gets an interview by a law enforcement officer (LEO), so don’t think you’ve already been approved. Treat the interview like a job interview: Have a good night’s sleep. Be freshly showered without heavy aftershave/perfume. Leave your “Be a Man Among Men” T-shirt, camouflage pants and combat boots at home. “Business casual" is appropriate for men (e.g., khakis w/penny loafers, and long sleeve Oxford if cool or warm weather, polo shirt if hot): clean & pressed. Have a good breakfast. Listen to music you enjoy on the way there. Unless otherwise specified, arrive 10 minutes early. Everyone says the staff and LEOs involved are friendly and helpful, so no need to go in there defensive, expecting to be pounced on or tricked or trapped. It’s non-confrontational: they’re just trying to understand you to discover if they should grant you the privilege of a CA CCW. But still use antiperspirant.
Some were asked about their GC, others weren’t. Best to be ready to explain how granting you a CCW would help public safety, and help counter the threat/risk you identified. If the interviewer is more interested in one GC reason vs another, follow their lead. Don’t emphasize what you think is your better/best GC.
You may get posed hypothetical self defense scenarios. But again, this will be in a friendly conversational style, not as a pop quiz to trap you. IMO, emphasize “run, hide, fight” (in that order), and calling 911. You may get asked why you need a gun vs just pepper spray: “deadly force is justified to stop deadly threats.” Officers don’t reach for pepper spray or tasers when someone is shooting at them or stabbing them. Also mention you plan to continue carrying pepper spray for non-deadly threats. (It can’t hurt to know the laws re. carrying, where you can carry and where you can’t. How to handle a traffic stop. The importance of not “printing”, “flashing” or brandishing. When is shooting justified. What to do if the BG flees.) You may get asked questions re. your handgun/s, ammo or method of carry.
Your CCW is to protect you & yours. If you choose to intervene to protect someone else, ask yourself, will they pay for your criminal and civil defense lawyers’ fees? the cost of your medical/surgical/rehab/disability? support you, your spouse and kids? pay for your kids’ college, your mortgage and your retirement? Would they go to jail or prison in your place? They are adults who most likely chose not to even apply. They may even be antis! They’re adults and responsible for defending “them & theirs.” If they chose to neglect armed defense, that’s on them. They get to live, or die, with their decision. Respect it. “Just call 911 and be a good witness” for them – that’s most likely all they’d ever do for you! Look at the royal hell cops often go through, even after what is determined to be a “good shoot,” and they’ve got a union and all sorts of insurance and other support you won’t have.
The interviewing LEO and Sheriff want to feel safe allowing you to be armed in the same restaurant or store with his wife and children, day or night, when you’re alert or tired, happy or angry, well fed or hungry. They want to know that you’re mentally and emotionally stable. Think of this as an extension of the GMC check, as an informal, free psychological evaluation. They probably ask the office staff that help you what you were like, so be patient, pleasant and polite to all involved (as you do in all your normal interactions with all people, right?) They could even have someone look over and into your car while you’re being interviewed, or review the video of your car when you’re on their grounds. Do you have an old “Kill a Commie for Mommy” bumper sticker? A “From my cold, dead hands…” window decal? You may be stereotyped as a “gun nut.” Is your car dirty on the outside and/or messy on the inside? Bald tires? Body damage? Did you drive fast or park rudely because you can’t manage your time? They can even pull your residence up on Google Maps’ street view: Is your house and yard clean and well maintained “like a good neighbor”, a “pillar of the community”? If you don’t manage yourself to maintain those possessions in good condition, how likely are you to manage yourself to well maintain your weapon? to maintain your temper, your emotional balance when someone cuts you off in traffic? Why should the sheriff entrust the irresponsible with the responsibility of a CCW permit with his signature on it? They don’t expect perfection, but you can see how this all logically fits together. If you think none of that should matter, that even messy and irresponsible people should be able to protect their lives, I agree! But you’re still approaching getting a CCW from a Rights perspective, not a privilege perspective.
Do you have anger issues? (“God damn it! It’s my RIGHT as an American!” while pounding on the LEO interviewer’s desk. Really happened.) Are you paranoid? (“ISIS is after me!”) Are you bitter about your divorce? (“I just know my ex-husband is following me.” You have no evidence against him, but he has evidence and restraining order against you.) Guess what? No CCW for you! That’s why one person suggested they’re looking to see if you conform to an “issuable profile.” You want to show them that you’re a decent, law-abiding, responsible, easy-going, emotionally stable, mature adult. Think Ward Cleaver, not Jack Bauer. You want to have a good attitude, be relaxed and friendly, but also reasonable, responsible, mature, conscientious, and self disciplined. While they’re friendly, you’re not at a bar with your drinking buddy either, so no off color jokes, etc., even if the LEO might laugh at it off duty.
Put yourself in the sheriff’s shoes. You’d ask yourself, “Is this the kind of person that I am willing to stick my neck out for by issuing them a permit to carry a gun in public?” If you don’t meet this standard now, don’t apply now. Get organized, get your life together, clean up your act and apply after that. Until then, just obey the 4-Stupids Rule (avoid Stupid people, avoid going to Stupid places, avoid doing Stupid things, and avoid being out at Stupid times), exercise situational awareness, and carry pepper spray. The sheriff doesn’t want to arm Drama Queens — that’s just asking for trouble (and political fallout). Remember: we should win a robust 2nd A “Right to Bear Arms” by SCOTUS by 2022 July 01, esp since Ginsburg got replaced.
MISCELLANEOUS
ALL of the CGNers or other CoCoCo CCWers they know (either personally, from IDPA or from SO class/qualification), were in their late 20s or older.
6 to 8 weeks after the interview you’ll get a decision.
No one mentioned having to get a psychological assessment or hearing of anyone having to. My guess is if it’s that close, they just “err on the safe side” and deny you.
No one had a residence check, so you probably don’t have to worry about them telling your anti-2nd Amendment neighbors you’re applying for a CCW.
Some didn’t donate to the sheriff’s campaign or to the Posse. Some did to one or the other. One donated to Posse before and after getting issued and to his campaign after getting issued (out of thanks and to keep Livingston in office).
Download the application form instead of just printing it so you can fill in the fields on your computer before printing it, versus just printing it out and using a typewriter or filling it out by hand. That way it looks more polished and you can spend time crafting your statements to your liking.
Some live in affluent areas, others don’t.
Some listed, among other GC reasons, “self defense” while others felt even mentioning that was a negative.
Avoid going too far off on tangents (e.g., politics, current events) during the interview unless the interviewer leads you there. Don’t talk yourself out of a CCW.
Participate in CoCoCo IDPA events (Richmond HotShots), to meet CoCoCo CCWers and get direct input from them re. the process. They might be willing to review your app and GC statement prior to submission.
ETA: Be sure to list any active/reserve military duty, LE/reserves, and shooting training, RSO, competitive shooting, etc, not for GC, but as part of your GMC, to show that you are trained, competent, trustworthy and safe for public carry. So just briefly list it, but do not focus on it. They’ll ask about it during the interview if they want more details.
IN CLOSING
Remember: CoCoCo is 50% Dem and only 22% Repub — the sheriff is an elected official and the local media and most of his constituents (aka voters) are liberals. He can’t get too far ahead of his voters. If a CCWer did a questionable shoot or was involved in a road rage shooting and the media showed their GC was weak or just “self defense,” the MSM would try to blame Livingston, he might get replaced at the next election and CoCoCo could go Dark Red. While the sheriff may not be held legally liable for issuing someone a CCW, until we get a state “Shall Issue” CCW statute from Sacto and/or a federal Constitutional RBA from CA9 or SCOTUS the press and voters may hold him politically liable for it.
Yellow still means the average law-abiding resident cannot get a CCW, but if you have elevated GC (regularly make large cash deposits or transport valuable or dangerous items for your business, or you’ve had threats against you or are particularly vulnerable to attack), and everything else is clean, you should be able to get one. It only costs the amount of a LiveScan to find out and a denial for insufficient GC won’t hurt your chances in the future.
As I read what was sent to me, I saw a few GCs that indicated that CoCoCo is light green and others that it is still light red, but most made me think it was yellow. What that means is: (1) I am confident it is currently yellow. (2) But remember, even if your GC fits yellow, you may get denied. (3) If your GC fits light green (risks due to recreational activities or hobbies) and your background check, GMC and interview are all excellent, even you MAY get issued. Go for it if you can afford to waste the time, money (LiveScan fee) and effort involved. Remember the Sheriff can loosen or tighten his GC standard anytime he wants. You won’t know if you can pass until you apply.
If you do apply, after you’ve been approved or denied, please post your experience so others can learn from it. (But don’t be so specific that you can be identified by what you post.) If you want to remain even more anonymous, PM me it and I’ll post it for you under my username just saying it was from another CGNer.
“Stay Calm and Carry On.”
Here’s a link to CoCoCo SO’s CCW webpage: http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm