Edited title to match articles title.

  • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Which is why the Palestinians need to recognise the writing on the wall decades ago and pushed to settle somewhere else where it isn’t a lost cause. They can’t just keep turning their people into combatants and not expect to be suppressed for it.

    Israel isn’t going anywhere, it will take more than the Middle East to force them and even then, they already have nukes.

      • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They can’t just keep turning their people into combatants and not expect to be suppressed for it.

        Steps can’t be skipped when they threaten the security of Israel.

        • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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          1 year ago

          Egypt allows in only a few hundred Gaza travelers a day, so Hamas maintains a months-long waiting list. Those who pay for “coordination” — a bribe believed to be pocketed by authorities on both sides of the border — get bumped higher up the list.

          Lots of innocent young people are just trying to get away, but can’t and are going to get destroyed because of these two extreme sides.

          https://www.npr.org/2019/07/04/733487137/i-want-to-get-the-hell-out-of-here-thousands-of-palestinians-are-leaving-gaza

            • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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              1 year ago

              Historically humanity has not treated “outsiders” to their in-groups very well.

              Maybe it’s some form of human instinct from countless generations of violence against ourselves, it’s hard to say.

              Either way we shouldn’t let basic fears get in the way of helping each other.

              The overwhelming vast majority of PEOPLE in the Gaza Strip are innocent civilians just like you and me, and want nothing to do with this nonsense.

              Families began stockpiling food as soon as Saturday’s attack began but fear that despite Hamas assurances supplies will run low.

              With Israel cutting off electricity supplies into Gaza, a looming fuel shortage means private generators as well as the enclave’s own power station, which is still providing about four hours of energy a day, will struggle to function.

              Electricity shortages mean residents cannot recharge phones, so are cut off from news of each other and from events, and are unable to pump water into rooftop tanks.

              At night the enclave is plunged into total darkness, punctuated by the blasts of air strikes.

              War is indeed hell, my friend.

              • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Too bad, because they clearly harbor terrorists who have invited war on them.

                Am I supposed to feel bad when they FAFO?

                • bamboo@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Yes. Most people are innocent civilians and none of them asked for this shit. Many of them were born into it, and they don’t even have the option to leave due to the blockade.

                  • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    they clearly harbor terrorists

                    Most people are innocent civilians and none of them asked for this shit.

                    So instead of working with Israel, they chose to let Hamas represent them. Makes sense.

    • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Where exactly are the Palestinians supposed to settle? The Israelis took their land, homes, and businesses, so a great many Palestinians are impoverished. Many can’t afford to move. It’s not like the Palestinian government can just purchase land and build new cities elsewhere as it’s poor too. If the Palestinians were to all move to any other country, they’d largely be refugees, reliant on their host country for food and shelter, which is a huge financial drain. Who is going to take and care for all of them?

      And if they were to move, Israel would take over the evacuated area. It’ll be enough for awhile, but the population is ever growing. Who will Israel invade next?

      • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Didn’t the Palestinians also “evict” all Jewish people? They went to Israel because they were refugees. It was about the same amount of people who fled from both sides. The only difference is that Palestinians grew from under a million refugees to more than 5 million by now. That is why they want Israel. Where would you have the Jewish people go? The Hamas want all Jews gone.

        • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s the biggest pile of regurgitated Israeli propaganda I’ve seen yet. People existed in the Palestine area before the beginnings of the formation of Israel. Said formation was largely begun by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, which resulted in waves of Jewish immigrants into Palestine. Israel was officially created in 1948 by the Israeli Declaration of Independence.

          So, to simplify it - Palestinians lived in Palestine. The United Nations declared support for a Jewish “national home” in Palestine, a place already occupied by Palestinians. Lots of settlers moved to the area and began to displace Palestinians, causing tensions between the two groups. Israel declared its Independence in 1948. Supported by the United Nations, Israel continued to displace Palestinians and expand the borders of Israel, evicting Palestinians from their homes to be replaced by Israeli settlers. Rinse and repeat for nearly eighty years, interspersed with Israel playing the victim and acting surprised their continued genocide of the Palestinians has resulted in the formation of terrorist groups.

          • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Can you give me a source for your side on this? Because on Wikipedia they describe it quite differently.

            And also, aren’t these actual quotes from the Hamas covenant?

            Palestine is an Islamic land… Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.

            [Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement… Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam… There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.

            The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.

            And so forth. Source: https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

            To me this sounds like a religious motivated anti-semitic war against Jews in general.

      • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        And if they were to move, Israel would take over the evacuated area. It’ll be enough for awhile, but the population is ever growing. Who will Israel invade next?

        That is so bad faith. There is plenty of dessert left to expand into.

        Where exactly are the Palestinians supposed to settle? The Israelis took their land, homes, and businesses, so a great many Palestinians are impoverished. Many can’t afford to move.

        A great start would be to stop all this militant jihad nonsense and concentrate on stability and engaging with the Israeli economy. If you keep having thoughts of causing harm to Israel, why would anyone on their side want to employ you people.

        Quit shooting yourselves in the feet.

        • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Lol, “you people”. I think we’ve found an Israeli apartheid supporter.

          If there’s so much “dessert” to go around, why don’t the Israelis fuck off and go there instead? The Palestinians were there first, they’re the invaders.

          • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Nope, the Israelis and Palestinians have claims to the region and the Israelis did historically live there during Ottoman times. The Palestinians don’t have a better claim than the Israelis.

            Also, Israel built infrastructure to make the dessert livable. That’s not free.

            Palestine lost the war, they should stop being belligerent so that Israel can trust them to not be terrorists. That’s the whole reason why there’s an apartheid. They’ve made their bed for themselves.

            • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              It’s amazing the mental gymnastics that pro-Israel propagandists will go through to justify the genocide of an entire people. By your shitty logic, I should be able to go back to my childhood home, kill a few of the people who live there now, and feel justified moving in with the survivors, taking over a bedroom or two. It was mine before, after all, and I never agreed to sell it to them. I’m not responsible for the actions of my parents, right?

              I would then play the victim when the survivors fight back as I systematically drive the rest of the household out and replace them with my friends and family. Then we’d start taking over neighbor’s houses. Sure, we didn’t live there before, but we’re a growing community and I’ll play off the retaliation of the first household as indicative of their “sub-human” nature. It was always my house, they were just squatting there so how dare they fight back. When the neighborhood gets fed up with our bullshit and starts burning our houses down, we’ll collectively pull a “surprised Pikachu face” - we didn’t do anything wrong, there’s no way this could have been foreseen, much less prevented!

              Edit: thank dog, another propagandist banned.

            • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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              1 year ago

              who lived somewhere hundreds of years ago matters little compared to who lives in a place for the last few generations, as it is those people who get displaced in these kind of things, not the people who lived during the time of the Ottomans

              • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Mhm, so the historical claims of so many countries about this shallow should be at risk too huh.

                Also, did we forget that the British promised both Palestine and Israel these lands? Palestine tried to wipe out the Israelis and they and their allies have been on a losing streak ever since. That includes the loss of land in a conflict. You know, consequences.

                • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Frankly, the history of the area is not an excuse in my book. Some child born to Palestinian parents can have had no part in any of that, why should they have to face consequences for the circumstances of their birth?

                  And yes, I don’t buy the whole “our country owned this land a hundred years ago so we should be able to take it and evict the people who grew up and live there now” kind of arguments where they apply to other countries too, but those are not the current subject of argument, Israel and Palestine are.

                  I don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea here, I’m not saying this to defend Hamas or anything, but punishing a civilian population for the actions of a terrorist organization that lives in the area is both morally wrong and foolish, it will drive more of those ordinary people to join the terrorists, out of desperation or desire for revenge.

    • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Do you think a Palestinian passport makes countries welcome you with open arms?

      Israel isn’t going anywhere

      Great, they should help out their Palestinian citizens who are obviously suffering.

      • Anduin1357@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You know why their passport is weak? Because everywhere they went and got absorbed into the general population, they fermented revolution against the country they were in.

        They did it to themselves.

        It’s clear that Palestinians are not interested in peace with Israel, so why ask for help?

    • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Ahh, the good old “Ukraine should make territorial concessions for peace” style of “argument”…

      Because history has shown that conceding territory to Israel or Russia is such a great way to stop them from coming again later, killing more people and “be willing to stop” for more territory.

    • bobalot@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Exaxtly, Ukraine should just compromise and give up land to Russia.

      They just need to read the writing on the wall.