It pained me to discover that my brother liked one of his books in 2020. I’m very careful to not stress our relationship because he’s otherwise a decent person. I shudder to think what other content he might expose himself to over time and what that will mean for our relationship.
I read one of his books before i knew who he was, and found although the advice was mostly common sense (if a bit context free) advice, followed by long rants about traditional family’s, and backed up by bible. I found myself thinking “what about behaviourism research?”, you know there has been progress in the last 100 years. I’m ashamed that the traditional family shit didn’t tip me off.
I’ve found him come up in my google feeds often too, It’s insidious.
In terms of convincing your brother about how off this guy is, generally there are how to approach things on line (i.e. you can’t always take a logical approach). I’ve also encountered this kind of thing in my extended family, I’ve got distant aunts that likely voted for trump, and they are otherwise decent people (i.e. not racist, and supportive).
It’s a wild statement to insinuate that your family voting for Trump somehow makes them bad people. Likewise, Peterson has some decent advice that I think should not fully be written off due to his personal life.
I haven’t really seen anyone in this thread disqualify his argument based on merits and only using their own feelings to say he’s wrong.
In all honesty, I don’t have a horse in this race, but I don’t think Peterson is a terrible as everyone seems to think. Maybe I’m crazy
I mean, just voting for Trump doesn’t objectively make you a bad person… That’s the definition of being subjective. Also, I’m confident in my intelligence, please don’t make lemmy the dumpster fire that is Reddit.
I’m not saying that Trump is a good person, again this is a discussion of Peterson, but one could argue that aside from Trump’s character he wasn’t the worst president the US has had.
Your argument is purely semantic and not really substantive unless you define what a “bad person” is. That’ll be different to everyone, so without a common operating definition of a “bad person” your point, while technically true, doesn’t really mean anything.
You cool with him shilling for fracking billionaires now too?
most of his “good advice” is just bland generic shit. the awful shit he puts out there far overshadows the generic advice that you could get from mister rogers
Seriously. I don’t understand this shit, I’ve even heard this kind of “good advice” garbage about Andrew Tate and “work ethic”. Are you telling me you can’t find a single other person in your chosen field to look up to? You can’t come up with your own personal advice through observation? Why are all these young dudes so desperate to idolize someone?
Voting for for trump does make them worse people, they are objectively supporting a racist. Trump family stole money from childrens cancer charity. That’s bad.
Likewise I didn’t write off Peterson for his personal life I wrote him off cause his arguments are rooted in the bible.
Really what makes peterson and trump so bad is that they are completely self centered, and self gratification is their only goal. They care about nobody else.
because he’s otherwise a decent person. I shudder to think what other content he might expose himself to over time and what that will mean for our relationship.
Maybe he’s wondering what content you’re exposing yourself to, as well? i think it’s time you guys talk, but on one condition; To not be easily offended.
i’m wondering; would he feel offend by you, or you feel offended by him?
He brought up men’s rights bullshit around the same time (actually, maybe a bit earlier). I shot that down in the most diplomatic terms I could. He seemed not to resist (I think I made my point fairly well and he reconsidered). He’s a good father and a caring brother. That’s enough for me.
Wait. He wants us to believe that he is intelligent? I’ve known toddlers that have an easier time getting words out.
I thought his whole shtick was portraying himself a bumbling idiot to bring out the hyperemotional crazies who get worked up about people not being just so? It is always fun watching the hyperemotional crazies.
I believe the lobster bollocks is actually Rule # 1. ‘Stand up straight’ or some shit (which lobsters also do not do because, well, they are lobsters).
I have read the book yes, and the lobster stuff is in chapter 1 indeed.
I don’t think that chapter was particularly enlightening, as far as I remember it was mainly about how evolutionary selection results in hierarchies in al species (hence the lobsters), and standing up straight gets you higher in the hierarchy because of something something confidence.
The evolution stuff is not wrong, and the stand up straight is… Eh… weird psychology stuff? However it didn’t mention women or gays as you said.
And how do you understand “hierarchies” in the context of human sociology?
Your message is notable in that it’s the first time I have realised that his readers may not even be reading this drivel at the level at which it was written, which is already laughably stupid.
If it helps some kid clean themselves up, get a career, and get out on their own, and generally get their life together and pointed in a better direction, how is that a bad thing?
A lot of sects can help you clean yourself up and get your life together. Is it a good thing if you’re being brainwashed into strange believes (like transphobia) at the same time? Maybe it still is but maybe there are better ways to help people.
Have you read my comment? I’ve said that maybe it’s good but maybe you can teach those things in a better, less toxic and less sectarian way. I don’t have issue with his old teachings but I think following anyone blindly is stupid and with JP from the very beginning I’ve seen a lot of it.
It looks like you believe I have some issue with you personally finding some value in Peterson’s writing. I don’t. You’re basically paraphrasing the same thing I’ve said. Can his writing help people? Yes, probably. Can you approach it in a healthy way, avoiding the toxic part and not becoming part of a cult? Yes, I’m sure it’s possible. Did most people approach it like this? Well, my sensation is that no, they did not. The community that grew around him became part of the right wing toxic masculinity and transphobic movements. And he never renounced it, it keeps playing a right wing guru. So yes, I don’t have any issue with people that read some of his books and found something valuable in them. But I also believe (and I think most people that are against him think the same) that he did more harm than good overall and that the world would be better without his philosophy. But of course it’s impossible to measure, it’s a subjective point of view and you can disagree.
It pained me to discover that my brother liked one of his books in 2020. I’m very careful to not stress our relationship because he’s otherwise a decent person. I shudder to think what other content he might expose himself to over time and what that will mean for our relationship.
I read one of his books before i knew who he was, and found although the advice was mostly common sense (if a bit context free) advice, followed by long rants about traditional family’s, and backed up by bible. I found myself thinking “what about behaviourism research?”, you know there has been progress in the last 100 years. I’m ashamed that the traditional family shit didn’t tip me off.
I’ve found him come up in my google feeds often too, It’s insidious.
In terms of convincing your brother about how off this guy is, generally there are how to approach things on line (i.e. you can’t always take a logical approach). I’ve also encountered this kind of thing in my extended family, I’ve got distant aunts that likely voted for trump, and they are otherwise decent people (i.e. not racist, and supportive).
It’s a wild statement to insinuate that your family voting for Trump somehow makes them bad people. Likewise, Peterson has some decent advice that I think should not fully be written off due to his personal life.
I haven’t really seen anyone in this thread disqualify his argument based on merits and only using their own feelings to say he’s wrong.
In all honesty, I don’t have a horse in this race, but I don’t think Peterson is a terrible as everyone seems to think. Maybe I’m crazy
Objectively it does.
Or just dumb.
I mean, just voting for Trump doesn’t objectively make you a bad person… That’s the definition of being subjective. Also, I’m confident in my intelligence, please don’t make lemmy the dumpster fire that is Reddit.
I’m not saying that Trump is a good person, again this is a discussion of Peterson, but one could argue that aside from Trump’s character he wasn’t the worst president the US has had.
So voting for someone that is not a good person doesn’t make you a bad person?
What is subjective about two impeachments several indictments, incitement to violence, a history of sexual assault?
Stupid people are often confident in their intelligence.
It definitely does.
That is completely irrelevant to the subject about whether voting for Trump objectively makes you a bad person though.
Your argument is purely semantic and not really substantive unless you define what a “bad person” is. That’ll be different to everyone, so without a common operating definition of a “bad person” your point, while technically true, doesn’t really mean anything.
You cool with him shilling for fracking billionaires now too?
most of his “good advice” is just bland generic shit. the awful shit he puts out there far overshadows the generic advice that you could get from mister rogers
Seriously. I don’t understand this shit, I’ve even heard this kind of “good advice” garbage about Andrew Tate and “work ethic”. Are you telling me you can’t find a single other person in your chosen field to look up to? You can’t come up with your own personal advice through observation? Why are all these young dudes so desperate to idolize someone?
Voting for for trump does make them worse people, they are objectively supporting a racist. Trump family stole money from childrens cancer charity. That’s bad. Likewise I didn’t write off Peterson for his personal life I wrote him off cause his arguments are rooted in the bible.
Really what makes peterson and trump so bad is that they are completely self centered, and self gratification is their only goal. They care about nobody else.
I’m sad COVID didn’t kill them.
Maybe he’s wondering what content you’re exposing yourself to, as well? i think it’s time you guys talk, but on one condition; To not be easily offended. i’m wondering; would he feel offend by you, or you feel offended by him?
He brought up men’s rights bullshit around the same time (actually, maybe a bit earlier). I shot that down in the most diplomatic terms I could. He seemed not to resist (I think I made my point fairly well and he reconsidered). He’s a good father and a caring brother. That’s enough for me.
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I cannot understand how you folks who love to defend this cretin can overlook this utter malarkey and focus on ‘make your bed’.
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Look at some of his old tweets. He’s racist and not as intelligent as he wants you to believe. It’s not complicated in this case.
Wait. He wants us to believe that he is intelligent? I’ve known toddlers that have an easier time getting words out.
I thought his whole shtick was portraying himself a bumbling idiot to bring out the hyperemotional crazies who get worked up about people not being just so? It is always fun watching the hyperemotional crazies.
Absolutely he wants to and a lot of people buy it.
For sure. A lot may even be an understatement for how many hyperemotional crazies have bought into his schtick.
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You can look in this thread, mate. There are screenshots a few comments up or down…
How did you get that out of the book?
I believe the lobster bollocks is actually Rule # 1. ‘Stand up straight’ or some shit (which lobsters also do not do because, well, they are lobsters).
Have you read the book?
I have read the book yes, and the lobster stuff is in chapter 1 indeed.
I don’t think that chapter was particularly enlightening, as far as I remember it was mainly about how evolutionary selection results in hierarchies in al species (hence the lobsters), and standing up straight gets you higher in the hierarchy because of something something confidence.
The evolution stuff is not wrong, and the stand up straight is… Eh… weird psychology stuff? However it didn’t mention women or gays as you said.
And how do you understand “hierarchies” in the context of human sociology?
Your message is notable in that it’s the first time I have realised that his readers may not even be reading this drivel at the level at which it was written, which is already laughably stupid.
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You got to expand a bit on your question, I don’t know what you want to hear.
Regarding hierarchy in the animal kingdom, it’s this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy
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A lot of sects can help you clean yourself up and get your life together. Is it a good thing if you’re being brainwashed into strange believes (like transphobia) at the same time? Maybe it still is but maybe there are better ways to help people.
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Have you read my comment? I’ve said that maybe it’s good but maybe you can teach those things in a better, less toxic and less sectarian way. I don’t have issue with his old teachings but I think following anyone blindly is stupid and with JP from the very beginning I’ve seen a lot of it.
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It looks like you believe I have some issue with you personally finding some value in Peterson’s writing. I don’t. You’re basically paraphrasing the same thing I’ve said. Can his writing help people? Yes, probably. Can you approach it in a healthy way, avoiding the toxic part and not becoming part of a cult? Yes, I’m sure it’s possible. Did most people approach it like this? Well, my sensation is that no, they did not. The community that grew around him became part of the right wing toxic masculinity and transphobic movements. And he never renounced it, it keeps playing a right wing guru. So yes, I don’t have any issue with people that read some of his books and found something valuable in them. But I also believe (and I think most people that are against him think the same) that he did more harm than good overall and that the world would be better without his philosophy. But of course it’s impossible to measure, it’s a subjective point of view and you can disagree.
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