Pupils will be banned from wearing abayas, loose-fitting full-length robes worn by some Muslim women, in France’s state-run schools, the education minister has said.

The rule will be applied as soon as the new school year starts on 4 September.

France has a strict ban on religious signs in state schools and government buildings, arguing that they violate secular laws.

Wearing a headscarf has been banned since 2004 in state-run schools.

  • jerd@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Religious freedom is a human right. Self determination is a human right. As long as whatever you do does not cause a negative impact on other people (see the second right) or society at large, then gtfo.

    • gnygnygny@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      There is no “second right” in France. The law is simple : Don’t wear visible religious sign at school. There are private religious schools if you disagree with the public system.

      • bric@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Is it so insane to think there could be a school with both religious and areligious people at the same time? A secular school that doesn’t support a religion, but allows students to express themselves how they choose? When did that become a radical idea?

        • gnygnygny@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          It’s not insane, but this separation has been done in 1905. In France the state is separated from the church (and by extension the religious). It’s not radical it takes roots in the principle of equality.

          • bric@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Separation of church and state is always a good thing, I’m not arguing against that, but this feels like a whole different level. If anything, this is the state taking an active role in changing the rules of the church. That’s not separation, that’s state sponsored atheism

            • gnygnygny@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              The public schools are the one from the state. Those one are separate from the church. But everybody can go tothe private schools those can be religious or not.

              That’s secularism, not atheism.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I don’t see it as separation. Requiring something religious or banning something religious are both state mandates. It’s moreso a strict secular enforcement.

        • smollittlefrog@lemdro.id
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          1 year ago

          Students should express themselves how they choose.

          That’s why you protect them from indoctination/religion forcing a certain outfit upon them.

    • Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      “Self determination is a human right” There’s nothing I agree more on. Unfortunately some muslim communities do not agree, and the men and the women aren’t on the same level. Many women are forced to port the abaya and other vests that cover their figure in entirety, and I don’t think they should be forced to if they don’t want to. 85% of the muslim women in France that I know do not want to port it, but they’re obligated by their family. Banning it entirely is not the perfect solution, but it’s a step in the the direction of eradicating religions in France. The time of Christianity and Islam is way beyond us.

      • Lols [they/them]@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        i like the slow stumble from “self-determination is a human right” to “eradicating religions in france”

        “85% of the muslim women in france ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᶦ ᵏⁿᵒʷ” really adds to the experience too, thank you

        • Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, sorry, I didn’t exprime myself correctly here. Let me rephrase it:

          If you want to be christian or muslim, please be, I don’t have nothing against you. But I’m not ok with parents forcing their religion down the throats of their kids.

          And, let’s face it, religion it’s at an all time low, especially with newer generations like mine, and I don’t like how boomers force their kids to “go to church”, “dress in a certain manner”, ecc, when the kids don’t even believe.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Parents get to raise their kids. For instance, your parents raised you to believe that stripping someone’s rights protects their rights.

            They were wrong to do that, but they get to do that

            • Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              My parents are Catholics, and it’s also for that that I’ve begun disliking religions altogether.

              Is banning dresses at a state-level a thing that shouldn’t ever happen? Yes.

              Do I agree with the banning of a robe that strips women of their identity? Still yes.

              We humans are contradictory existencies

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Lol I like to joke that nothing turns you against Catholicism (or religion in general) like growing up Catholic.

                I’m a hardliner on freedom and (safe) expression, full stop, but I def get where you’re coming from.

    • Aux@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You can practice your religion inside your home. Once you’re out in public you should respect others and hide your religion away. This is the way!

      • Darthjaffacake@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Not having to hide who you are is a human right, I get where stuff like this is coming from but if there was a rule to hide all symbols of sexualities to protect people it’d become pretty obvious that it’s homophobic. Being able to exist in public shouldn’t require making changes to yourself.